Mastodawn

Brother Soul Dec 12, 2024

@aral 😆

Brother Soul Dec 12, 2024

@aral Wished he would've picked a different way to get his message across. But across he sure did get it didn't he?

Ruined his freaking life though. That makes me sad.

Brother

Led By Fools Dec 12, 2024

@aral Has it been confirmed or not that "Radicalized" by Cory Doctorow @pluralistic was on his book club reading list?

https://prospect.org/culture/books/2024-12-09-radicalized-cory-doctorow-story-health-care/

Asking for a friend.

Radicalized

A short story about health care, and desperation.

The American Prospect

Fábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕Dec 12, 2024

@aral the one I've readed before looked like some ancap stuff

I Voted for McGovern Dec 12, 2024

@aral
Mr. Mangione definitely has a point. I don't advocate violence. But neither do I advocate for-profit health care. They both result in death and grief, so in that way murder and for-profit health care are not dissimilar.

arathodic Dec 12, 2024

@aral
I do not plan to distribute this manifesto of basic moral principles.

Michael Dec 12, 2024

@aral @briankrebs “Manifesto”

Aral Balkan Dec 12, 2024

@mykl @briankrebs ““Manifesto””

Chris Johnson Dec 12, 2024

@aral Thanks. Manifesto seems like an overblown word for what is just a short statement.

Aral Balkan Dec 12, 2024

@cxj Manifestos don’t have to be long.

Rando Dec 12, 2024

@aral I don't know why people keep calling this a Manifesto. It's a suicide note (death by cop).

Jeremy Graeme Dec 12, 2024

@aral So like, I get why he did it. I get the anger. But there's a lot about this 1%'er that rankles me now that he finally saw the light. A big problem I have seems to be him acting like killing this guy was something he and no one else had the courage to do ever.

Except we know what happens when you directly kill oppressors and evil people. We've seen it through history. The reason it's not a strategy commonly used is because it doesn't really remove any power or make any change. They're gonna vanish this guy. And UnitedHealthcare will have a new CEO, and people will forget him in a year. Meanwhile, anyone who walks close to a CEO from now on is gonna get iced by his security teams. And they'll get away with it. The Pinkertons will go proactive.

Conflicted emotions. I've been in this fight against the 1% for a long time, and a rich white 1% kid snapping and acting like we've all got it wrong is just..Let the rich white people tell us how to protest right.

Maier Amsden Dec 12, 2024

@JeremyGraeme @aral I don't think I'll forget this for... ever.

Jeremy Graeme Dec 12, 2024

@MaierAmsden @aral Do you remember the last time it happened or who did it?

Maier Amsden Dec 13, 2024

@JeremyGraeme @aral The last time someone murdered a health insurance megaconglomerate CEO over the company's harmful greed and most of the country cheered or had no sympathy? Can't say I do remember the last time that happened.

Jeremy Graeme Dec 13, 2024

@MaierAmsden @aral well no, I mean there are a number of ceos and 1%'ers pillaging the world. Right now this guy's all over the news. But people don't even remember the names of people who've done this in the past, and when they bury this guy, they won't remember his name either. We'll just move on to the next thing.

That's kind of my point.

wavefunction Dec 12, 2024

@aral the whole “right vs left wing” political swirl around this feels an awful lot like we’re forgetting this bit:

https://www.gluecode.net/images/RightEnemy.jpg

wavefunction Dec 12, 2024

@aral that said, I also don’t think we Should have a “rich” group, but that can be a separate conversation

clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Dec 23, 2024

@wavefunction Are you sure it's possible to enter the top side of that diagram without first being on the right side?

wavefunction Dec 26, 2024

@clacke @aral nepotism and generational wealth mean you can have recipients of top-segment wealth without the awfulness that got them there. Question is, do they ask how their forbears got the money in the first place. And if they do, how do they act on that knowledge.

clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Dec 27, 2024

@wavefunction @aral So, unwitting cronies. 🤷😇

This guy's defo not -all- there (praises Bernie Sanders, then praises white supremacist Tucker Carlson), BUT...but... I hope this really encourages people to unify and focus on #classstruggle against neolibs and billionaires, instead of divide and conquer.

#ClassWar

(I'm still not shedding any fucking tears for a remote-murderer CEO!)

sleepy62🍁🛠️ 🖥️ 🔬 🌞Dec 12, 2024

https://youtu.be/J_swGiAHhbQ

Best commentary so far:

#LuigiMangione
#manifesto
#LuigiMangioneManifesto
#UnitedHealthcare
#UnitedHealthcareCEO
#UnitedHealthGroup
#capitalism
#systemicViolence
#censorship
#corporateMedia

United Health

YouTube

Karel Brits 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 🇨🇩Dec 13, 2024

@sleepy62 and this song was already posted in August on Instagram. Long time before the murder took place. @aral

PixiePancake Dec 12, 2024

@aral I wish he would have included a more personal element. I’ve read (not sure of the authenticity) that his mother was not properly treated medically and that he could hear her shrieking in pain, and that he had sustained a horribly painful back injury himself.

Karel Brits 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 🇨🇩Dec 13, 2024

@MissPixiePancake that was a fake manifesto. @aral

John A. Wojtowicz Dec 12, 2024

@aral
Thank you for your post.
You have my trump promise not to distribute it.

Peace

hex Dec 12, 2024

@aral absolutely don't print it out and post it all over your town or city in fliers that also have the hashtag #FreeLuigi or #FreeLuigiMangione

@maggiejk ;)

Asbestos Dec 12, 2024

@aral
This puts a point to the "life is sacred" bullshit.
This puts a point on the "you can't put a price on human life" bullshit.
our society puts a price on human life every single day. not just in healthcare, but in almost everything. It's also not necessarily bad either. We could spend a million dollars on something that saves a single life. or we could spend that million on something that would save hundreds.

Asbestos Dec 12, 2024

@aral
The bullshit part is saving the million and then keeping it for a larger penthouse condo in Miami.

contrapunctus ✊🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Dec 12, 2024

@aral What a surprising amount of status-quo-apologia in the replies. 🥲

Dragoniff Dec 12, 2024

@aral >Not a single "Mama Mia"

I'm pretty sure this is faked...

Kevin McCurley Dec 12, 2024

@aral Ted Kaczynski had a more interesting manifesto. https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/188/materials/Industrial%20Society%20and%20Its%20Future.pdf See starting at section 172. Murder is still a morally unacceptable way to implement societal change.

Andrew Dec 12, 2024

I like that he kept it succinct and focussed on one issue.
Also, I'm sure he's on the same page as me in that we need radical systemic change, but he knows that many American people, irrespective of the political leanings, have had negative experiences of US healthcare and it's a pretty good rallying point to perhaps build something bigger upon

contrapunctus ✊🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Dec 12, 2024

@sinabhfuil @arathodic

joene 🏴🍉Dec 12, 2024

@aral 🤫

Respectable Normie, Esq.Dec 12, 2024

@aral 💠 as always, worth clarifying that to the public knowledge this is the manifesto attributed to mangione, by the police.

stux⚡Dec 12, 2024

"A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy."

Pooblemoo Dec 12, 2024

@aral the Media will not distribute because they do not want to aid and abet would be copy cats. I think of the song Jeremy by Pearl Jam. This may unleash a lion that can throw the country into many acts of violence based on the shooter's own (possibly distorted) sense of vigilance. Sure the right ones might go but there are folks who see good people as the wrong ones. e.g. Why is Trump elected as the next Pres? A helluva lot of people think he's the right even though he'e part of the problem

Maier Amsden Dec 12, 2024

@aral Wouldn't think of it! Oops! I accidentally hit the boost button looking for the stern admonishment button.

Edward Champion Dec 13, 2024

@aral "Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty." Well, that dude knows how to close an essay.

Seb Dec 13, 2024

@aral Makes sense that the mainstream media doesn't want to publish it. It's so straightforward to the point and easy to verify that it leaves no room for alternative representations.

@aral Why would the media spread a killer's manifesto? On the contrary (and more civilized countries already do this), the name of the murderer is not mentioned, he is convicted and thrown in jail to be forgotten. Otherwise, a cult will grow up around him, like the one around Breivik. Anyone remember the mosque killer from NZ? Hardly anyone. Let's keep it the same with this one.

@michal @aral There are people for whom Luigi is just "the killer". (Setting aside the matter that he's just a _suspect_ at present, with pretty flimsy proof.) Not a human being, not anyone with a history of being wronged by the private healthcare industry, no...just "the killer". It's all they can see.

@michal @aral For these people, the manifesto is not a mirror of the sentiments of millions of people suffering similar injustice. It's just "the killer's manifesto". That's all they can see.

You, sir, are one of these people. Congratulations on focusing on the wrong thing entirely! 🎉

@michal @aral You speak of forgetting. To forget the issues that made this happen means setting the stage for more suffering and loss of life on a massive scale and continue the cycle of violence.

But I'm guessing you don't care. After all, one killing is a tragedy and a crime, but systemic killings are just good business.

@contrapunctus @aral The problem is that you already see the actions of insurance companies as "systematic killing". They don't. Not in the rule of law, which the USA still is. With that view, your opinion that it's OK to approve of killing in some cases is really irrelevant.

@contrapunctus @aral There is, of course, a systematic problem in USA health care. However, the absence of social and health insurance similar to that in Europe, and the transfer of these services to companies whose primary objective is profit, is not a problem of these companies as such, but of the Americans themselves, who avoid social solutions. In their view, public health insurance is communism... OK, let them live in capitalism with all its pros and cons, but don't legitimize murders.

@michal @aral "Rule of law" is, more often than not, "rule of the rich". Are you a stranger to how the rich can get away with anything while the others cannot?

The Americans may be held responsible...but then again, it was corporate media that got them to that state of brainwashing.

@contrapunctus @aral The extremely rich and poor were here before newspapers, it's human nature. If we want egalitarianism, let's expect the system to be abused again by the incapable, because it doesn't pay to do something extra. Are we then going to advocate shooting the useless dregs of society who suck the money out of our society?

@michal @aral And no, I don't "approve" of the killing. I prefer nonviolent solutions. I also oppose wars and the death penalty (really, I find any kind of punishment both distasteful and ineffective).

@contrapunctus @aral So what's the adoration of the killer?

The only defensible reason to use violence is when you can't change something, even if the majority society wants you to. Which is not the case in the USA. USA is a country where half the electorate will vote for an egomaniacal lying psychopath, but still no one forced them to vote otherwise. Not even the corporate media, because they haven't had that much power in the age of social media in a long time.

@michal @aral Don't know what "adoration" you're talking about. I've merely stated that -
1. The suspect has an identity beyond "the killer".
2. This identity is necessary to keep in mind, because it highlights critical issues that led to the killing (stated in the manifesto you're opposed to sharing).
3. These issues should not be hidden away or forgotten, or the cycle of violence will only continue.

@michal @aral I don't know how influential corporate media was on the US elections. But even if it had less influence, it had decades to do its damage before social media started gaining ground.

And even social media is corporate-controlled. Just look at the disinformation peddled by Elon Musk on X, or the lax enforcement against hateful content on Facebook and Instagram.

Bernie Isn't In Epstein Files Dec 13, 2024

@michal @contrapunctus @aral Those companies spend millions of dollars on keeping us from having universal healthcare, so it's very much a problem that they are directly responsible for. They are not ignorant passive beneficiaries of the system but some of the primary architects.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/leaked-video-shows-unitedhealth-ceo-saying-insurer-continue-practices-combat-unnecessary-care

Aral Balkan Dec 13, 2024

@michal You’re right, they really shouldn’t spread a killer’s manifesto like this:

Leaked video shows UnitedHealth CEO saying insurer will continue practices that combat 'unnecessary' care

UnitedHealth Group CEO Andrew Witty said in a leaked internal video that the insurance company plays an important role in guarding against "unnecessary" and "unsafe" care.

Fox Business

@aral Saying "I don't want Trump for president" does not mean "Somebody kill Trump". Same with those insurance companies. They want to optimize profits, but not purposely kill people like the killer did.

b҉Dec 13, 2024

@michal @aral if we consider that the purpose of a system is what it does (regardless of the hypothetical intent of its operators), then at some point we do have to reckon with the possibility that one of the main outputs / purposes of the U.S. healthcare system is the industrial scale murder (along with some off-gassing of permanent destitution and disability) of its customers. but yes, they definitely do also maximize profits.

The purpose of a system is what it does - Wikipedia