Mastodawn

I sear to fucking christ these people do not know, or do not WANT to know, any answer but "appease fascism."

Trump is the SAME DAMN GUY he was FOUR YEARS ago; the Dems just ran SIGNIFICANTLY TO the RIGHT of where they were in 2020.

The Dems literally lost because they ran a campaign for Republicans and guess what? Your fucking BASE are NOT Republicans. It's right there in the fucking numbers and the results from both 2016 and 2020.

Anyone telling you the answer is to appeal more to the 75M fascists who backed Trump is simply looking for an excuse to make out with fascists.

PERIOD. The fucking numbers are RIGHT THERE.

Joe Biden was not a uniquely charismatic dude. Nor was his legislative record anything anyone but bougie cracker liberals would write home about. The guy wrote the fucking 1994 Crime bill, used to eulogize segregationists, and was a huge cheerleader for the disastrous Iraq War.

He won, by MILLIONS of votes, because he promised to end the wars, reign in police violence, dismantled the migrant carceral complex and punish Nazis.

What did Harris promise? YEAH NOT FUCKING THAT.

Like we have THREE elections worth of data on running against this SAME FUCKING GUY now.

Harris/Clinton: Run a campaign for Never Trump Republicans, bougie surburban crackers, rich donors, and NatSec ghouls = LOSE to a reality TV show assclown nazi.

Biden: Run a campaign for a diverse coalition containing young people, Black people, brown people, poor people, and anyone else who opposed nazis = WIN and by MILLIONS.

Fuck your narrative; it's RIGHT THERE IN THE NUMBERS AND RESULTS.

Writing op eds about what mystical forces could have caused Trump to win over so many people Trumpism is about persecuting; it's ALL BULLSHIT. You're talking about percentages of votes, so when MILLIONS of people stay HOME because you ran right of George W Bush and that's not exactly a thing DEMOCRATS AND ANTIFASCISTS WANT TO VOTE FOR, it looks like Trump GAINED in those demos. But he didn't. He's on 75M votes. You just pissed away 10M votes running for Never Trump Republicans as a Reaganite pig

Harris literally could have dusted off Biden's 2020 platform, word for word and said "I'm for these things and I'm not responsible for the fact that the guy I worked for failed to deliver them; I was Vice President and if you make me President I'll get you the goods" and she would have racked up 81+ Million votes and beat this assclown. She choose the other way, the way Hillary lost in 2016.

And I absolutely REFUSE to accept that you assclowns analyzing this election cannot see this.

So why are they lying to you? Guilt, shame? Stupid?

No, because THESE NARRATIVES they're pushing A) allow their rich donors and members of the ruling class (of which most of the party leadership belong to) to collaborate with fascists and retain control over the OPPOSITION to Trumpism, despite the fact that they've lead you to ruin.

If they ADMITTED they blew it by appeasing nazis, you'd demand people be fired and would turn on anyone COLLABORATING WITH FASCISTS for profit.

And please, ffs, stop telling me "it's racism and sexism" because I will blow my fucking stack. Let's review:

A) The existence of racism and sexism were known quantities when she was nominated; you nominated her anyway

B) Obama is a Black guy and won two terms just fine

C) Harris's 2024 platform was originally Joe Biden's 2024 platform and Biden, a WHITE IRISH DUDE, polled WORSE than Harris finished

D) Trump got 74M votes in 2020, and 75M in 2024

"racism and sexism exist" is NOT an excuse.

Millions of shitlords did not turn out to vote against the Black woman; that did not happen. The numbers are VERY CLEAR that this is NOT what happened.

Literally the only NEW thing about this entire election? The only thing that's different from both 2016 and 2020?

Somehow, Trump leveraged Youtubers, Podcasters, and fucking Pro Wrestlers into replacing the portion of his base that aged out/perished over the past 8 years with your angry white sons. So great job American parenting.

But that's it. Everything else is EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT HAS BEEN THE LAST TWO TIMES.

Like I told you every fucking waking moment since 2016-17; nazis, were ALWAYS going to vote for the NAZI.

It was not me who lead anyone to believe otherwise. It was your LEADERS who insisted they could be convinced, saved, persuaded. And a whole bunch of bougie cracker liberals who NEVER ONCE ACCEPTED that their friends, family, and co-workers had WILLINGLY EMBRACED fascism went along with it because admitting the TRUTH would make lunches with nazis and Thanksgiving diner AWKWARD.

So many ppl have this stupid theory of elections, encouraged by the media, based on the idea that America is somehow 330M undecideds who MIGHT vote for Dems or the GOP, depending on who gives a better speech or some shit

It's not true. It hasn't been true for decades at a minimum. In fact, I suspect it has NEVER been true

The nazis were ALWAYS going to vote for the nazi. Your job was to churn out NOT NAZIS (which btw, Biden did in 2020 running way left of Harris/Clinton) not to CONVINCE NAZIS.

Anyway, there's your autopsy that I've been trying to write in essay form for the better part of a week but simply can't because I'm TOO FUCKING ANGRY and bougie media minions keep coming up with 200 new excuses a day that conveniently mean their friends in the political class are not responsible and should retain power.

I might still write that essay, but we were running out of time and the zone is flooded with bullshit.

So there's your autopsy. I'm right. You fucking KNOW I am. They lying.

Fiadh (aglæcmæġden)Nov 12, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites 🦌 Thank you for saving us the trouble of trying, in vain, to talk sense to them

@AnarchoNinaWrites The millions who voted for Biden who didn’t even vote this time shocked me. I knew racism & misogny were rampant & I know there were some shenanigans, but to throw Democracy under the buss & your friends & fam with it because you couldn’t make yourself vote for the brilliant hard working experienced black woman…

@Pineywoozle That is not why they didn't vote. Read the thread or don't; please don't just repeat the same narrative I spent 10+ posts debunking at me because I ain't here for it.

@AnarchoNinaWrites Why do you think the ones who voted for Joe in 2020 just didn’t vote this time?

@Pineywoozle Read the thread.

Joe Biden ran on: ending the forever wars, reigning in police violent, dismantling the migrant carceral complex, and punishing nazis.

Harris ran on: a genocide, we love cops, fascist immigration laws, and hugging nazis.

It's right there in the platform. Harris ran a campaign for Never Trump Republicans and bougie surburban crackers afraid of brown people; the problem is that's not her base, it's Trump's.

@AnarchoNinaWrites I don’t think even if that were true, that that explains away millions who voted for Joe just not voting nor do I think that’s a pic of her campaign. She ran on helping America solve its issues, unemployment, healthcare, old age care & manufacturing. She got lies about not doing anything about Gaza shouted at her when voters who hadn’t been conditioned to hate Dems & blame them instead of Rs would have headed the call from their religious leaders to please vote for Kamala.

https://jorts.horse/@AnarchoNinaWrites/113468612671356138

@Pineywoozle I'm not here to play fantasy with you.

Good day.

AnarchoNinaWrites (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Again, Biden was POLLING WORSE THAN HARRIS before he STEPPED DOWN. So: no. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4981792-pod-save-america-bidens-internal-polling-showed-trump-winning-400-electoral-votes/ "the Biden campaign’s own internal polling at the time when they were telling us he was the strongest candidate, showed that Donald Trump was going to win 400 electoral votes"

jorts.horse

Maier Amsden Nov 12, 2024

@Pineywoozle @AnarchoNinaWrites Kamala's "solutions" were milquetoast centrist garbage. People don't want lame "opportunity zones" and "access to affordable [blank]." They want bold changes, like no tax on anyone making $100k or less, medicare for all, childcare for all, ending genocide... serious change.

@MaierAmsden I tell ya what, I’m just gonna block ya and you can echo chamber with your buddies

Maier Amsden Nov 12, 2024

@Pineywoozle @AnarchoNinaWrites

The Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉Nov 12, 2024

@Pineywoozle @AnarchoNinaWrites Gotta side with Nina on this one. If millions of your *own base* didn't vote for you against an actual fascist, there's a big problem with your messaging. Full stop.

Read Obama's incendiary, balls-in speeches. You can almost go through a list of flashpoint issues for middle- and low-income voters, ticking them off one by one. He called inequality the "defining issue of our time".

Note that whether or not he delivered on his campaign pledges is irrelevant here.

@ApostateEnglishman No, it isn’t. I think it points to a level of misogny, racism & influence. She improved Biden’s F>M ratio. That alone speaks to misogny. If it was just “messaging” that dynamic wouldn’t’ve dramatically shifted. Nina’s assessment of Kamala’s platform was utter far far #farL Bullshit. Have you read Kamala’s platform or watched her speaches? I kept Nina in my TL as a bellwether. She’s always been spot on her propagandized target. Do a key phrase search from her TL #USPol

@ApostateEnglishman Also her premise that all three elections were identical was utter garbage.

The Sleight Doctor 🃏🍉Nov 12, 2024

@Pineywoozle Since you're critiquing someone who is actually in the room - in her house! - I'll keep my own mouth shut.

Good day to you.

Alan Nov 12, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites maybe it was a bad idea sending the police to harass and beat the most active young political activists in colleges who dared speak up against genocide - you know the ones that also volunteer to work for the grinding ground get out the vote efforts during presidential campaigns. That's not just killing the turnout on a direct 1:1 basis, that's leveraging the disaffection by at least an order of magnitude or more

@metaphase Yeah who knew emulating LBJ's war on college students who hate murder could be a bad idea politically...

(note: everyone who studied why Nixon won twice knew. But apparently our "leaders" are just so fucking smart...)

AnthonyJK-Admin Nov 12, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites @metaphase

It's not so much that they think they are "smart"; it's that they have been paid very, very well by our corporatist conservative elite to parrot the same tired "Democrats will never be 'centrist' enough until they break off the 'left' and meet the 'American electorate' in the right-wing 'middle'!!!!" bullshit they have for the past 40 or so years. It's really all they've been taught and paid to regurgitate.

Ciggy Bringer of Smoke Nov 12, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites @metaphase

Psssst, Nina, what if thats what makes LBJ a top tier statesman of neccesity and not a politician at all?

*jumps out window to escape*

Ángela Stella Matutina Nov 12, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites

The parallels with Argentina last year are depressing. The Democrats could literally have studied our presidential campaigns as examples of what to avoid on their side and what the enemy was going to do (and did and won). But I suppose they knew better, huh?

@AnarchoNinaWrites Except that both Biden & Clinton saw an increase in turnout. An increase each time. A substantial one both times. Then with a more exposed, criminally convicted tRump openly stating he would be a fascist and hey here’s our play book millions just shrugged & said “Nah, not gonna vote” So, no a drop in voter turnout of millions of Americans who had voted against tRump is not “EXACTLY THE SAME” (correction. An improvement over prior white candidates.)

@Pineywoozle You are absolutely fucking bonkers; Harris finished with 10M LESS voters than Biden got in 2020.

I'm done. Go play fantasy in someone else's fucking replies.

@AnarchoNinaWrites That’s what I said. 2016 and 2020 both saw huge jumps in turnout and all of a sudden there is a drop of millions. Your statement that nothing changed with this election. 2 elections in a row with increased turnout then a drop of millions is expressly not. “EXACTLY THE SAME” A drop that big and a reversal of a trend of more active voters is not the same.

https://jorts.horse/@AnarchoNinaWrites/113468684311369832

@Pineywoozle Holy shit she TIED Obama in 2012, it was NOT a huge turnout increas and fucking POPULATIONS GROW. You don't lose 10M fucking votes because "don't like the Black woman."

BIDEN on the SAME Platform as HARRIS ran in 2024 was on pace to give up 400 EC votes. Is Biden a DUDE? Is Biden WHITE?

I'm done. You do not fucking read the shit I type. You're leaving, here's your fucking block.

AnarchoNinaWrites (@[email protected])

Unhinged fucking liberals in my replies let me ask you a serious question - why are you here? Based on your replies, I know full damn well it's not to read the things I post; so why are you here? What about me makes you think we have things in common?

jorts.horse

@AnarchoNinaWrites I misspoke Clinton got less votes than Obama but not a drop of millions like we saw in this election, & a huge increase over previous w guys. The 2 pics are what would have been a correction of the false premise that there was no difference in the last 3 elections. That many previously engaged voters, suddenly deciding to just Nope out of voting, is a huge change. That big an “error” in the premise of an explication for why something happened casts all of into doubt. IMO.

Eric Vitiello Nov 12, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites its lack of empathy and selfishness.

@pixel No, it's running as a goddamn Republican when your base is not Republicans.

There were 74M people willing to vote the fascist in in 2020, and there are 75M people NOW.

Lady Jam 🖖🏼🏳️‍🌈Nov 12, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites It could be both, no? She went right and also she’s a lady..?

@farah I mean, all you're saying is "sexism exists." And I dunno how relevant that point is to this discussion.

Biden, a white irish guy, ran on the same platform and was polling WAY WORSE than Harris finished.

So if sexism was a deciding factor, we could have expect her to do worse than Biden was polling, and Trump to significantly increase his voter numbers.

Neither of those things happened.

So, no I don't think it can be both. Sexism exists. It's not WHY she lost.

HairyPotter Dec 1, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites im pretty sure the 1 million votes gained doesnt even track with population growth

Daughter of Discord Nov 28, 2024

@AnarchoNinaWrites

🤣 🤣 🤣

@AnarchoNinaWrites I'm with you on this, but it still doesn't explain why the real majority turned out to be "Refuse to vote AGAINST a literal Nazi"...

@jwcph Because America has always been fascist, and has been mainlining fascist ideology for decades, and because "we have to stop the fascists" doesn't work all that well when you're promising people a genocide, a police state, and cooperating with fascists.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not absolving Americans for being dogshit here; but fascism hasn't been a dealbreaker in this country for the vast majority of its existence. There are at least 75M fascists in America.

@jwcph Like, there's no theory involved there. Harris didn't fail to make the argument he's a nazi; although I'd say she failed to make the argument that she would oppose nazis. Either way tho, plenty of Americans shrugged.

Tellingly, Biden didn't run as an anti-fascist either in 2020; he said he'd punish nazi crooks. But that's not the same thing.

@AnarchoNinaWrites No, I know - but fucking why!? This isn't just a US question, or a this election question; people are poo-poo'ing our worries & even commending TFG all around the world, too, without suffering any consequences, indicating the same mechanism at work everywhere. We can also turn the question around: Why do most people emphatically agree that Nazi Germany was terrible if most people are actually fine with fascism?

@jwcph Because they don't think they have anything to gain by supporting the 3rd Reich. It is after all, finished.

But a lot of people, both historically and today, see upside in fascism and believe they will not be the targets of that regime. The answer to why they didn't care enough to vote when nothing was in it for them is the same answer as why vast portions of our society don't care about colonial massacres, or police violence against people who don't look like them. "Not me."

@jwcph That having been said - both of these things were constantly in 2020 and 2024. Biden did things to make them vote FOR something, even something I suspect a lot of them knew he would not deliver on. Harris by contrast said "you can stop this particular fascist, but you have to support a bunch of things you hate and I'm not offering you anything you want."

Whether that's right, or moral, is not an argument that goes anywhere. You and I can agree it's not; but the name of the game is win.

@jwcph My position is, and has been, for months and months that "hold your nose for a genocide, expanded police funding, fascists migration laws and rehabilitating neocons to vote against Trump" would not be enough. And I think it's very clear I was correct.

You go to war with the electorate you have; not the one you wish you had. So, in all seriousness and not being snarky to you at all "why didn't they just shut up and vote" is not a relevant question. It was predictable they would not.

@jwcph This is a country that wholly internalized that SOME deserve to die, and some deserve to live. That some DESERVE opulent luxury, and some DESERVE to toil in misery to provide that opulent luxury. That some people matter, and some don't. That American exceptionalism means they matter, and other people don't.

Expecting them to vote to protect their neighbors or even worse, faceless minorities they've never met, was not realistic. "What's in it for me" was always going to be the question.

@jwcph So the only answer I can provide for "why" is "every waking moment of the history of this country, and the socio-political-economic order we still live under."

Every single day, millions of Americans choose to prioritize their perceived benefits, over the lives of others.

And perversely because that is the case, asking "why they didn't behave differently than everything they've ever been taught" is in some ways, not a relevant question.

@AnarchoNinaWrites I guess it's just a bit of a harsh awakening that people in general are somehow even worse at thinking about their own existence than I thought they were...

@jwcph Should the knives ever come out for them, they will be the first to deny any responsibility for such. Sadly however, that's a realization that only comes to people once they knives ARE out for them.

There's a whole poem/little speech about this in Nazi Germany, starts with "first they came for the..."

@AnarchoNinaWrites Just dawned on me: You're right that mobilizing people to vote against fascism failed because getting people out to vote *against* something is vastly more difficult than getting them to vote *for* something - but at the same time, voting for fascism *is itself voting against something*. More accurately, it's voting against FUCKING EVERYTHING!, because that's the core tenet of fascism: To stand united against. No, I didn't forget a word there. United against.

Headsplosion.

@jwcph Sure, I agree with that, but that also brings me back to the fact that American elections are not about 330M undecideds who might go either way.

Trump has a base, fascists, and they were always going to vote for fascism. The Dems base is not Trump's base and the things that motivate them to vote were clearly articulated in Biden's 2020 platform that again, won 81 million votes - more than any campaign in history.

They vote for nihilism and hate. The Dem base votes for progress.

@jwcph The whole problem, if you simplify it down, is that Trump ran a campaign to turn out fascist Republicans, and Harris ran a campaign to... turn out Republicans who maybe don't want to admit they're pretty fashy. If both sides run for Republicans, then Republicans will win.

She had to turn out HER base, the one Biden WON with, and not only did she not do that, she mostly spit in its eye to chase suburbanite crackers and Never Trumpers.

Turning out your base = win. Trump did. Harris didn't

@AnarchoNinaWrites We're not going to disagree that the establishment Left™️ is failing everywhere, or that their mistake is being reactive to the Right™️ turn, instead of presenting the ways forward that are so well known re. environment, equality, economy... we still have our work cut out for us, it's just more of a guerilla effort than I previously thought (or wanted to believe, the distinction is immaterial at this point).

@jwcph No, I get you. And I don't disagree. I guess it's just a different conversation than the one I was having, which is very much focused on "why."

But it's not a conversation I'm unwilling to have with you; I guess I was just a bit slow on the uptake that we'd essentially switched topics.

The nazis definitely are a death cult, and they definitely are voting "against" everything. They do however believe that advantages them somehow; but it's not the most important thing. Punishing us is.