Part of my joy comes from blocking angry dudes that feel entitled to engagement. Highly recommend it! 👍🏿

I don't have to talk with everybody. There are so many people that are genuinely curious and open minded, that I just don't have to deal with these dudes.

There's an effectively infinite supply of "dudes on the internet." There is absolutely no shortage. The marginal cost of blocking one, is close to zero.

"Well, what about the marketplace of ideas huh? Not very inclusive of you!"

OK! 🤣

Paradox of tolerance and all that.

I don't see it as a paradox at all. You cannot include all ideas, because one of the loudest ideas, is "We should silence the ideas of Black people!" 🙂🙃

You cannot include this idea without excluding other ideas. So absolute inclusion shouldn't even be anyone's goal. It's certainly not mine.

And dealing with annoying people online can be exhausting. Even if they're not malicious! Me doing "racism 101" individually for millions of people, just doesn't work.

@mekkaokereke

I once saw someone express it best: the idea of it being a paradox is bollocks based on ideas from people who have no idea how humans work. Tolerance is not a moral virtue, it's a contract. A can promise to be tolerant towards B. If B doesn't promise to be tolerant towards A, for example by being fascist, they won't sign a contract with A; if they won't sign a contrat, A also won't, so A doesn't need to be tolerant towards B.

You don't want to be tolerant to me, I won't be tolerant to you

You said you were tolerant to me, you enter the contract. If you break the contract, I'm allowed to be intolerant to you.

There's no paradox, only mutual accord.

@rakoo @mekkaokereke That analogy is good.

I use a different one: I *value* tolerance. I want to maximize it.

In that equation Trump’s brownshirts are a negative number and should be removed in order to maximize.

@rakoo there are different versions of that (including hairy game theoretical ones) but you're probably thinking of Yonatan Zunger's essay.

And even if you're not I recommend it.

@mekkaokereke

https://medium.com/extra-extra/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376

Tolerance is not a moral precept

The title of this essay should disturb you. We have been brought up to believe that tolerating other people is one of the things you do if…

Medium

@darcher @rakoo @mekkaokereke The hypothetical analogy of “the monster”, a god who torments non-believers with divine wrath gets turned on its head when it’s revealed that there never was a monster to torment anyone. In that scenario, the real “monster” is the divisive ideology itself!

Groups of people deluding themselves into killing one another due to their beliefs in something which never existed in the first place. Fear begetting needless death.

@rakoo @mekkaokereke it’s worth noting that a lot of hierarchies in our society are (often decayed) contracts of this sort. Respecting your elders is supposed to be deference in exchange for wisdom (or patronage or whatever). If you receive no benefit, you owe no deference.
@rakoo @mekkaokereke
Absolutely.
Heard it described as a peace treaty. If any party violates it then they are no longer under the protection of it.
@raymierussell @rakoo @mekkaokereke Iterated prisoner’s dilemma gonna iterate

@raymierussell @rakoo @mekkaokereke

I also quite like the contract/treaty angle (and it was super helpful to me years back), but I also feel like tolerance just isn't the best word. "Ignoring/allowing/enabling bigotry" is a fundamentally different (and opposite!) behavior from "trying to build and maintain a safe community." Yet both are "tolerance"?

wtf

Like, is "tolerance" even a thing? Intolerance sure is! And so is objecting to that intolerance. But tolerance?

@matt @raymierussell @rakoo @mekkaokereke My personal favorite framing of this was “Tolerance is a peace treaty”… which suggested the opposite of tolerance wasn’t incivility. It was “The Troubles” as in Ireland.

https://medium.com/extra-extra/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376

(Originally seen via thread on G+, so .. y’know, old)

Tolerance is not a moral precept

The title of this essay should disturb you. We have been brought up to believe that tolerating other people is one of the things you do if…

Medium
@mekkaokereke @matt @raymierussell @rakoo @kilpatds tolerance as social contract is a great framing.

@btanderson @mekkaokereke @matt @raymierussell @rakoo Right. That was above. I'm suggesting "tolerance is a peace treaty"

"Contract" has a lot of baggage around enforcement mechanics and breach mechanisms that (I think) confuse things in this specific analogy, where "peace treaty" seems more on point

@kilpatds

sorry for showing up out of nowhere with this, but have you all seen https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-future-of-our-former-democracy/id1767428498 ?

podcast looking at the troubles and beyond in northern Ireland and learning from it to apply to the present and not make similar mistakes

@matt @raymierussell @rakoo @mekkaokereke

The Future of Our Former Democracy 

History Podcast · 8 Episodes · Weekly Series

Apple Podcasts
@rakoo @mekkaokereke Karl Popper himself said it wasn't a true paradox. He goes on and on about the various quasi- or pseudo-paradoxes - of freedom, of economic freedom, of sovereignty, of relativism, of state planning, etc. - as well as the paradox of the liar (a true paradox), in the Open Society and its Enemies.

@ApostateEnglishman @rakoo @mekkaokereke

Ones does not simply break the law of non-contradiction.