IkeishaHillmanSep 19, 2024
Prof. Sam Lawler
Tomorrow I've got an interview with the Financial Times and then the Wall Street Journal to talk about space junk and satellite pollution. So I guess maybe people with money are starting to notice that the commercial space race is a really really bad idea?
Sep 19, 2024 at 2:47amWeb
Show threadProf. Sam LawlerSep 19, 2024

I was not expecting to have a really lovely conversation at the end of the interview about stargazing from a truly dark sky site as an almost religious experience, that was really nice.

Also, this poor journalist lives in the UK so he has to go to France to get somewhat dark skies, and all the way to like, Australia for truly dark skies. A good reminder to continue to be grateful for the amazingly good dark sky access I have here on the prairies. Worth fighting for!

Show threadBytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets Nearest I can get in the UK would be up on the Bannau Brycheiniog (aka Brecon Beacons) and hope for a clear sky :)
Show threadKnud JahnkeSep 19, 2024

@sundogplanets

As a big-city kid I never knew what "dark" really meant. Two things made real impressions: trying to bike 1/4 mile in rural Manitoba at dark on a bike with no lights, and going outside the first night on La Palma and La Silla. Lasting.

Show threadJoshSep 19, 2024

@sundogplanets I've seen a really dark, clear sky only once in my life I think. It was as a child and one of my most treasured memories, pointing up at the colourful stars and the milky way with my dad. I was in total awe at how many stars there were and that they had colours(!), it was magical.

It was a family holiday. It might not even have been properly dark, but the contrast to even the village we lived in at the time was absolutely massive.

Show threadJules 🍺Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets I live in Brighton on the south coast, if I nip over the downs to the village of Poynings it is in one of the darkest area of the UK 😊
Show threadjiawenSep 20, 2024
@sundogplanets The journalist could talk to @Paul_Hill, who knows a lot about UK astronomy and dark sky sites.
Show threadPaul 🏳️‍🌈Sep 21, 2024
@jiawen @sundogplanets Really doesn't need to go to France for truly dark skies, they exist in the UK too. I imagine it might have been a case of a London based journalist who writes off the rest of the UK as default.
Show threadPaul 🏳️‍🌈Sep 21, 2024
@jiawen @sundogplanets best example of this was when we worked with the sky at night...literally the flagship astronomy TV show on the BBC they asked us if they needed to bring water with them to our dark sky site in Wales. These people never leave the M25 except to fly to France...
Show threadPaul 🏳️‍🌈Sep 21, 2024
@jiawen @sundogplanets my own house in a village in the South of England an hour from London has a Bortle 4 sky, just South of me there is a very accessible B3 sky. Most of Wales is Bortle 2. Go to the west and north of Scotland you have vast swathes of Bortle 2 and 1 - literally as dark as the prairies. Literally a couple of hours North of London in Norfolk connected by motorways and a high-speed railway you will find Bortle 3 skies.
Show threadPaul 🏳️‍🌈Sep 21, 2024
@jiawen @sundogplanets We actual have much darker skies than France, which is heavily light polluted everywhere.
Show threadPaul 🏳️‍🌈Sep 21, 2024
@jiawen @sundogplanets sorry! Rant over!
Show threadjiawenSep 21, 2024
@Paul_Hill I'd love to go to Astrocamp some year. The Beacons sound lovely, the event even moreso.
Show threadPaul 🏳️‍🌈Sep 22, 2024
@jiawen you would be most welcome! Just putting the finishing touches to the next camp which starts this Saturday!
Show threadMikeHSep 20, 2024
@sundogplanets We have "dark sky reserves" here in the UK:

"We’re proud that six UK National Parks – Exmoor, Brecon Beacons, Moore’s Reserve in the South Downs, Snowdonia, North York Moors and Yorkshire Dales have been awarded International Dark Sky Reserve status. Northumberland, with England’s most pristine dark skies, is an International Dark Sky Park (Gold Tier)."

The above from: www.nationalparks.uk/dark-skies/
Dark skies - National Parks

National Parks celebrate the amazing night’s sky with Dark Skies Festivals. Fun events for all the family and one of the highlights of the year.

National Parks
Show threadGurre VildskäggSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets
Maybe I'm cynical, but I'm guessing a one generation of "so everyone else should stop doing it, but my plan is good and also doesn't count since others haven't stopped" before the moneyed class accept there's regulation needed.
Show threadWrenSep 19, 2024

@sundogplanets

A real teachable opportunity!
Do good!! 

Show threadCassandraSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets I hope so!
Show threadBlssdbowezSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets all the good luck!
Show thread@ChrisCorrigan has movedSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets 1000 to 10,000 satellites between 2010 and now. Out here at Huu ay aht/Bamfield for the Three Stars Dark Skies Festival today we were talking about the need to appoint guardian matriarchs for the sky like this nation has for the land and sea of the territory.
Show threadFrank ShinnemanSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets
Sadly, Financial Times readers (therefore FT) only want to know how to minimize any negatives and maximize profit. Think, Fossil Fuel companies.
Show threadBruce Heerssen Sep 19, 2024
@fshinneman @sundogplanets
Privatized profits, socialized losses
Show threadMedea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets unfortunately a lot of hard science fiction writers “Popularized” it.
And we know how well Tech Bros “get” Science Fiction
Show threadNicole ParsonsSep 19, 2024

@sundogplanets

The national security implications of satellites deliberately designed with obsolescence and radio frequency leakage, are worrying.

Musk has used his pre-eminence in the market to harm his competitors before.

His tweet in support of the convoy blockades in Canada in 2022 shut down his competitors Toyota & Ford.

It cost the Canadian economy billions in losses.

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/small-demonstration-prompts-police-action-near-site-of-2022-bridge-blockade-1.6847630

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/us-auto-plants-face-shortages-shutdowns-layoffs-protesters-block-canada-bridge

https://tc.canada.ca/en/binder/16-economic-impact-blockades

Small demonstration prompts police action near site of 2022 bridge blockade

What proved to be handful of demonstrators were protesting the federal carbon tax over the noon hour in Windsor moved police to act and remind the public that blocking “critical economic infrastructure” is illegal.

Windsor
Show threadaltruios phasmaSep 19, 2024

@Npars01 @sundogplanets

A protest is deemed good entirely based on its media darling status. If people are “protesting the wrong things” “too effectively” suddenly it’s not a protest but a coordinated attack…

I strongly disagree with what they are protesting… I think it’s hypocritical to condemn the right to protest based on the content.

Methodology is another argument. But honking horns isn’t violence, at best it’s noise pollution. Stopping trucks isn’t violence either.

My 2¢

Show threadNicole ParsonsSep 19, 2024

@altruios @sundogplanets

The convoys weren't non-violent. They were escalating towards violence.

Anti-vaxxers were supported by right wing churches & Koch anti-democracy groups like the JCCF for political reasons. They promoted protests that prolonged the pandemic, for partisan reasons.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/judge-says-men-convicted-in-coutts-blockade-were-ready-for-shootout-with-police

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/alberta-protesters-get-6-1-2-year-sentences-for-roles-in-coutts-border-blockade-1.7030399

Judge says men convicted in Coutts blockade were ready for shootout with police

Labrenz's decision echoed the Crown's submission that jurors believed the men were prepared to battle with police.

edmontonjournal
Show threadaltruios phasmaSep 19, 2024
@Npars01 @sundogplanets
I'm not defending shitty people. I defend the right to protest, as that's an important right: which can't be relegated to ineffectual sidelines everyone can ignore.
Being prepared for violence and violence are two different things. I can't know this, but I suspect the results would have been different in America than in Canada. Which is a + for Canadian police. American police would absolutely have started a blood bath. Being prepared isn't violence.
still: shitty people
Show threadSnacksSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets did I read the potential for the frequent decorating of old ones to have an effect on the ozone layer as well? They seem like a terrible idea overall.
Show threadCykonotSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets at least Elon is too incompetent to flood the zone with yimby studies painting his satellites burning up as a genius geoengineering ploy
Show threadCykonotSep 19, 2024

@sundogplanets imagining a video like this, but promoting dropping 10k tons of aluminum etc a year into the atmosphere, not to mention rocket propellant

https://youtu.be/-UiCSvQvVys?si=si67DOa5e0QfKetH

Followed up with studies proving an ozone layer hole is good for solar power

Also, remembered this interaction where you dropped a 29 TON bomb on me 😮‍💨
https://mas.to/@cykonot/112396407259822972

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

Show threadProf. Sam LawlerSep 19, 2024

@cykonot I've definitely had to quickly choke off questions I've gotten at public talks about "well actually isn't alumina in the upper atmosphere a good thing?"

Gods... if we're going to geoengineer (and I'm definitely not advocating that), it needs to be careful, well-studied, and purposeful. Not an accidental consequence of some other dumb shit we're doing.

Show threadVincent 🌻🇪🇺 en 🌹☘️Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets 🤞
Show threadKalkailSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets I was just reading on how the satellite clutter is actively hampering radio astronomy, piling radiation into protected research bands, and polluting space photography. Plus, space junk is apparently creating vaporized metal? As a layperson, it is alarming how much private interest has been allowed to run amok to the ruin of all.
Show threadBaessito ☭🇧🇷🇺🇳🇵🇸Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets one can only dream
Show threadJohn_J_Ireland53Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets The Wall Street journal is a Murdoch paper which means that they will kill or attack any sensible concerns that reduce profits for any business. Good luck to you.
Show threadJohn StonierSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets isn’t the proliferation of objects and debris increasing project risk, as a primary limit to future investment? When do we get to not worth the risk level?
Show threadBrad RosenheimSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets The angle that finally got their attention: space junk could possibly take out your private jet on the way to St. Barts! Gasp!
Show threadLichoSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets maybe it is a good idea. A Kessler syndrome cloud might just be what we need to block out the sun and stop the climate change!
Show threadGlen PritchardSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets Yesterday's report on NPR about the damage Musk's Starlink satellites are doing to our ability to see our into space certainly caught my attention.
Show threadNonya Bidniss 🥥🌴Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets WSJ? FT? WSJ is a Murdoch rag. It could be they plan to make a billionaire the protagonist in their story and frame you as a fringe nut.
Show threadUlrike FrankeSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets
Excellent topic!
Show threadLstn2urmama 🇨🇦Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets The danger of keyholders of over 6400 or more satellites world wide.. NOT a good feeling 🚨🚨🚨🚫🚫🚫🚫🚨🚨🚨
Show threadMinisterofimpedimentsSep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets …unlikely. Possibly more like how much/how fast can we pack stuff into low earth orbit before it starts clanking together? What’s our window of investment opportunity? Or should we just buy into someone already there?
Show threadJuan Per¢ent,🇲🇽 🍉,🇻🇪Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets I think leaving space to...space agencies, would be best?
Leaving essential things to markets, natural monopolies, is a bad idea in general. States loose important competences shifting power to private actors and agendas, competition can lead to wastefulness compared to a sound cooperation. Managing a Commons has challenges, but better than whatever the Musk is up to.
Show threadMagnesiumSep 19, 2024

@sundogplanets good luck on your interviews! Break a microphone!

As far as questions or points to make, why is Luxembourg's space law body not governing this as a requirement for LEO cubesats?

Show threadDagnabbit, Pascaline! 💥Sep 19, 2024
@sundogplanets
Finally! It's amazing how easily space junk (satellites included) goes off people's radar. Especially the people who develop all this junk. Enjoy the interview, post the results. And the link! I always appreciate your efforts 😊
Show threadsebastian büttrichSep 19, 2024

@sundogplanets

And what makes it a bad idea for them might be that neither a Kessler event nor a metal-enriched atmosphere would be good news for their investments.

Show threadCySep 19, 2024
Or maybe people with money are preparing to double down on their death march and want to know as much as they can about their enemies. Be careful...
Show threadKevinOnEarthSep 21, 2024
@sundogplanets
I'd love to believe that the bad idea that is the space race is what the money people really are motivated by.