Daring Fireball
Spotify Wants to Use iPhone Volume Buttons to Control Connected Devices, But Refuses to Support AirPlay, Which Would Solve the Problem
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/09/05/spotify-volume-buttons
Spotify Wants to Use iPhone Volume Buttons to Control Connected Devices, But Refuses to Support AirPlay, Which Would Solve the Problem

Link to: https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/29/spotify-points-finger-at-apple-over-an-unwelcome-change-to-volume-control-technology/

Daring Fireball
Sep 5, 2024 at 7:59pmDF Tootbot
Show threadBenRiceMSep 5, 2024
@daringfireball @gruber Spotify is definitely being obstinate, but given that camera apps had to wait 15 years for an API to detect volume presses (without ridiculous workarounds), I do think Apple could stand to be a little more open here
Show threaddmitriidSep 6, 2024

@BenRiceM @daringfireball @gruber

Please tell me how exactly is Spotify being obstinate?

Does every single device need to support AirPlay and do you have to connect to every device through AirPlay to be able to control the volume through Spotify?

Right now I can just start music on whatever device in my home through Spotify and control volume through it.

Show threaddmitriidSep 6, 2024

@BenRiceM @daringfireball @gruber

Spotify (and Spotify's partners) support a much larger number of devices than AirPlay.

In any case, we're discussing a simple "Apple removes the possibility for apps to simply get the volume level in their apps and pretends you can only do that by paying them for AirPlay licensing"

Show threadRob ShearerSep 5, 2024
@daringfireball This is a classic example of how this legislative approach can backfire: the only reason this argument has any traction is because apps were *ever* allowed access to the volume buttons. The incentive is thus for Apple to to be incredibly reluctant to provide permission APIs in the EU. Ie they should be more closed, not more open.
Show threadMatt HealeySep 5, 2024
@daringfireball AirPlay can’t reliably send audio from a Mac to a HomePod in the same room. Gee I wonder why third parties can’t be bothered supporting it when even Apple can’t get it to work.
Show threadTW (OLD ACCOUNT)Sep 6, 2024
@matthealey I dunno it always works fine for me, maybe you need new WiFi or something.
Show threadTed TodorovSep 6, 2024
@matthealey @daringfireball works for me, with iPhones, iPads, Macs and AppleTV. Make sure your HomePod software is up to date
Show threadRaouf DoolSep 5, 2024

@daringfireball Aren’t you overthinking this one a little bit. You act as if Spotify is trying to do something nefarious. Ask a random person and I think “letting Spotify use the volume buttons” is utterly reasonable.

And trust me, I loathe Spotify with the heat of a thousand data centers.

Show threadSeanSep 6, 2024
@raoufdool and Spotify can do it like so many other apps do it.
Show threadRaouf DoolSep 6, 2024
@Strwpok I’m just saying it’s not worth Apple’s energy to fight all these fights
Show threadSeanSep 9, 2024
@raoufdool Apple aren’t picking these fights. Spotify are the one who weaponised the EU against them.
Show threadRaouf DoolSep 9, 2024
@Strwpok Steve Jobs closing off Apple products “picked” this fight
Show threadSeanSep 9, 2024
@raoufdool 🤣🤣🤣 so Jobs in 2008 could see the eu was going to start some bullshit in 15 years time and it’s all his fault 🤣🤣
Show threadRaouf DoolSep 11, 2024
@Strwpok 1976?
Show threadMaxi 12x 💉Sep 5, 2024
@daringfireball The European Commission.
Show threadSeanSep 6, 2024
@frumble fuck no.
Show threadjcgarzaSep 5, 2024
@daringfireball You just called them “volume buttons” yourself, and that’s what they’ve been since the first iPhone - but you’re still going to defend Apple’s decision to prevent other apps from using them for that purpose?
Show threadCasper 👻Sep 5, 2024
@daringfireball dear Spotify, go fuck yourself. Have a nice day.
Show threadScott FrazerSep 5, 2024
@daringfireball this affects the Sonos app as well, so I expect they’ll be watching closely.
Show threadtilo 🌱Sep 5, 2024
@daringfireball @gruber the receiving devices need to support AirPlay as well. How are you not getting this?
Show threadErlendSep 5, 2024
@daringfireball
@gruber Spotify _does_ support AirPlay. Spotify Connect is something else, an alternative. And it’s actually better! It’s more stable (in my experience), and you can control and monitor the playback session "live" from Spotify clients on other devices. It’s the main thing I miss after going over to Tidal. So «supporting Spotify» doesn’t solve anything, as it’s already supported. But Apple just nerfed the better way to stream. (1/2)
Show threadErlendSep 5, 2024

"Who should get to decide the rules for how the hardware volume buttons work on iPhones and iPads? Apple, or the European Commission?»

Call me crazy, but I kinda wish *I* could choose if I wanted the **volume** buttons on my phone to change the **volume** when I’m playing music.

Why isn’t that an alternative to you? (2/2)

Show threadNitSep 5, 2024

@daringfireball “Who should get to decide the rules for how the hardware volume buttons work on iPhones and iPads? Apple, or the European Commission?”

The EC when Apple makes backwards ass decisions like this.

It’s a volume button, let it control the volume.

Show threadWesley MooreSep 5, 2024
@daringfireball "Who should get to decide the rules for how the hardware volume buttons work on iPhones and iPads? Apple, or the European Commission?" — Neither! Users should get to decide. Despite the way everything is sold these days it's their device.
Show threadKavehSep 6, 2024

@daringfireball @gruber Spotify can use Airplay like anything else on iOS, but this post makes me think you might not know what Spotify Connect is, how it works, or the fact that there’s an existing audio products that might support Spotify Connect but not AirPlay.

Spotify Connect also sends audio directly to the device playing it. Airplay typically goes through your phone and you pay a battery penalty for that.

Show threadJohn GruberSep 6, 2024
@kavehv I know exactly what Spotify Connect does. And because I know exactly what it does I understand why it is no longer able to use the hardware volume buttons the way it used to.
Show threaddmitriidSep 6, 2024

@gruber @kavehv

Apple: removes useful functionality apps rely on. Gives no useful alternative.

Gruber: yes, it's exactly right, I fully support and endorce the decision to not give the apps ability to do simple things like read the volume level

Show threadJimmy CallinSep 6, 2024
@gruber @kavehv Can you explain why they had to remove support? Because I don’t quite understand it.
Show threadJohn GruberSep 6, 2024

@callin @kavehv I'm not 100 percent sure myself but I think what happened is that Apple announced that certain APIs for accessing the hardware buttons were deprecated last year, and in iOS 17.6 they stopped working.

I don't think Spotify is being blocked here by App Store review. It's that the APIs they were using for this are now gone.

Show threadKavehSep 6, 2024

@gruber @callin I think that’s right, but here’s the wrinkle: you can still control a HomePod’s volume through the iPhone’s volume buttons when you’re connected to it *not through AirPlay* but through the “control other devices” feature. Same for an Apple TV.

That mechanism doesn’t exist for third parties, and the mechanism third parties were using as a workaround was just removed by Apple with no replacement.

Show threadJimmy CallinSep 6, 2024
@gruber @kavehv Ok but what do you mean by supporting AirPlay would resolve the problem?
Show threadMichael TsaiSep 6, 2024
@gruber Do you know which APIs they were using? I heard reports that they and others just use KVO, which doesn’t seem like it would be removed. If they’re not being blocked by App Review, what to make of the statement that Apple will approve them if they add HomePod integration?
Show threadJohn GruberSep 6, 2024

@mjtsai It’s unclear to me what API Spotify Connect was using (or still is using, when it runs on older iOS versions?), or exactly when it broke (17.6?).

I think though — but could be wrong! — that whatever they were using was undocumented and never supported for what they doing with it, and now it doesn't work.

Show threadJohn GruberSep 6, 2024

@mjtsai A commenter here on the Sonos support page describes Sonos's previous technique thus:

“Sonos had been using a hack to fool iOS into thinking the Sonos app was actually playing media through the phone by playing a silent audio file in the background. Apple demanded they cease using the hack and comply with the rules or risk getting taken down from the App Store.”

So maybe it is an App Store compliance issue and not a deprecated API?

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-and-music-services-228995/ios-hardware-volume-control-6895905

iOS Hardware Volume Control | Sonos Community

Feature request:Bring back ability to control volume with iOS (iPhone, iPad) physical volume buttons.The removal of it is exceedingly aggravating.  The work around sucks. I will own 11 Sonos devices.  But I will buy no more as long as it works this way.  This situation is so poorly communicated and...

Show threadMichael TsaiSep 6, 2024
@kavehv @gruber This thread makes it sound like Sonos also can’t use the hardware buttons even though they do support AirPlay: https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-and-music-services-228995/ios-hardware-volume-control-6895905
iOS Hardware Volume Control | Sonos Community

Feature request:Bring back ability to control volume with iOS (iPhone, iPad) physical volume buttons.The removal of it is exceedingly aggravating.  The work around sucks. I will own 11 Sonos devices.  But I will buy no more as long as it works this way.  This situation is so poorly communicated and...

Show threadYannSep 6, 2024
@daringfireball The answer to your last question should be simple and obvious: users! If I want to change the volume of my Spotify connect device using the volume buttons, *I* should be able to choose to do so even if Apple thinks I’m « holding it wrong »
Show threadJames RussellSep 6, 2024
@daringfireball as has been pointed out, Spotify supports Airplay. Spotify Connect is superior in almost all cases (IME anyway) and works multipoint and seamlessly. Should the EU legislate to unlock innovation by not forcing Spotify Connect to be a 2nd class citizen and sidestep gatekeepers? Yes please.
Show threadjcgarzaSep 6, 2024
@daringfireball Well, that was quick…
Show threadjcgarzaSep 11, 2024
@daringfireball I have 4 Sonos speakers throughout my house, and for years, I’ve played music on them from Spotify, and if I wanted to change the volume, I’d just pick up my phone and press the volume buttons. Now, when I do that, I get this “delightful” notification: