Tim BrayAug 12, 2024

This is gross, and further confirms Apple’s transition from innovation to rent-seeking, but there is a good solution: Stop having an app. Patreon would work just fine as a web site, no?

https://mas.to/@carnage4life/112950113668058280

#apple

Dare Obasanjo (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Apple has informed Patreon that it will be kicked out of the App Store unless it pays the 30% tax for all donations. Patreon has started a migration process that will take until November 2025 to transition all creators to the Apple billing system and making less money. https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/12/apple-says-patreon-must-switch-to-its-billing-system-or-risk-removal-from-app-store/

mas.to
Show threadjwzAug 12, 2024
@timbray Do not let Patreon off the hook on this. This is their decision.
Show threadJeff AtwoodAug 12, 2024
@jwz @timbray I can't see how "stop having an iOS app" is letting them off the hook?
Show threadjwzAug 12, 2024
@codinghorror @timbray Patreon decided that not having an iOS app was so unacceptable that they're fucking over their customers instead. This is as much Patreon behaving badly as it is Apple behaving badly.
Show threadJeff Atwood
@jwz @timbray how many bigcos intentionally forgo an iOS app, though? Like who could you point to that has done this before?
Aug 12, 2024 at 7:24pmWeb
Show threadjwzAug 12, 2024
@codinghorror Why should I give even a fractional fuck about that? Do I look like a VC or a Patreon board member to you?
Show threadJeff AtwoodAug 12, 2024
@jwz these large companies are herd animals. None of them want to be the first to do anything interesting or progressive, so there has to be a smaller new herd forming, somewhere. The best way to motivate them is to point to "you don't wanna be left behind like [other company], right?"
Show threadjwzAug 12, 2024
@codinghorror It is not my job to fix Patreon's business model.
Show threadJeff AtwoodAug 12, 2024
@jwz true, but "you suck and should do what I want" is less effective than "well, the other guy is doing it a whole lot better than you" in my experience. I mean, best case, we get new Patreon competitors we can support, right? Choosing a 30% tax rate for everyone over simply having a website and not an app is kind of insane to me, but I don't know the numbers their iOS app produces..
Show threaddirbAug 12, 2024
@codinghorror @jwz
"Choosing a 30% tax rate for everyone over simply having a website and not an app"
I think that's just bad reporting by the techcrunch, the original patreon blog post makes it clear this only affects subscriptions through the iOS app, subscriptions done through the web or the android app will remain the same
Show threadjwzAug 12, 2024
@dirb @codinghorror That is not all they're doing. https://jwz.org/b/ykXg
Patreon screws me over, says a big Apple did it and ran away

Patreon has two billing models, monthly (bills on the first of the month, or whenever they get around to it) and daily (charges you the moment you sign up.) For several years now, they have been trying really hard to get creators to switch to daily billing whether they like it or not, with a series of intrusive nags and dark patterns. E.g., the "Settings" tab always has an "unread" alert on ...

Show threadAlex MarkleyAug 12, 2024
@jwz @codinghorror as one of the (barely) affected Patreon creators, I sure would love to have a toggle that just opts my creator page out of the iOS app completely and forever. The fact that that toggle does not exist definitely says a lot about the amount of respect Patreon has for my business.
Show threadJoeAug 12, 2024

@alex @jwz @codinghorror Perhaps, but Patreon may also be constrained by the draconian app store rules. Apps have been banned just for letting Apple folks know that there are other payment options.

But yes, just leaving the app store is an option.

Show threadjwzAug 12, 2024
@not2b @alex @codinghorror "We no longer have an iOS app, we have a web site" was a choice that was always available to them. Instead of the open web, they chose complicity.
Show threadJoeAug 12, 2024
@jwz @alex @codinghorror Agreed. And they might eventually do that.
Show threadAlex MarkleyAug 12, 2024

@not2b @jwz @codinghorror That doesn’t make sense to me. I have jumped through the Apple App Store hoops, I know how they work.

If my Patreon supporters are MY customers, then I should be able to have all traces of my content omitted from the iOS app. The only mental model where that doesn’t work is if they are customers of Patreon FIRST and my customers second.

Show threadMaestro MushiAug 12, 2024
@codinghorror @alex @jwz you could always troll the owner’s bands on YouTube, but that’s kind of rude… I actually think that it’s one of the few platforms that still works with the actual creators in mind (except for that little stint where they tried to expel sex workers)
Show threadAlex MarkleyAug 12, 2024
@Mushi @codinghorror @jwz I agree, that would be a rude approach and not something I would endorse.
Show threadTim BrayAug 12, 2024
@codinghorror @jwz Unusual, yeah, but for 30% of gross income? Unusual measures might be on the table.
Show threadjwzAug 12, 2024
@timbray @codinghorror Is that 30% costing Patreon anything? They're just going to pass that cost on to creators, who will now earn 30% less depending on how people sign up.
Show threadBoyd Stephen Smith Jr.Aug 12, 2024

@jwz @timbray @codinghorror I was really hoping cryptocurrency would have freed us from having %age based middlemen siphoning off my earnings that I want to direct at creators. Instead, even the "best" cryptocurrency just completely fails at being a good way to transfer my resources to someone else digitally. :(

#ChokepointCapitalism (from Apple and Google, but ALSO Valve and Patreon) is driving everyone towards #enshittification and #TechnoFudalism and I hate it. :(

Show threadUberbradyAug 12, 2024
@codinghorror @jwz @timbray Shortcut.com (formerly 'clubhouse’) used to have a web app and just gave up on it, now just does web views. Kinda crappy on the phone, but the app wasn't ever very good. Prolly VC-funded, not sure?