Mastodawn

WHY do they think this is a problem that can be solved through a one-time purchase of a "new teaching method" --

I realize that there isn't the funding to do the things that might actually work:
* Decrease class size
* Attract and retain more experienced teachers
* Provide better administrative support. For example it can be hard to contact parents because databases are not kept up to date.
* Make schools more integral to communities with clubs, arts and sports.

myrmepropagandist

There is no such thing as a magic math math book or lesson plans that make students who have been underserved by their schools regain the years of learning and support they are missing. I understand why this keeps happening. The real solutions aren't in the budget... but there is no good reason to change the math books again. This is just extra work for teachers who could better use that time tracking down the phone number of that one student whose parents you've never spoken to.

Elizabeth Aug 12, 2024

@futurebird @phonner my mom said it’s because every few years a new superintendent comes to the school systems and they want to put their dissertation into practice that could be exceptionally cynical, but that is what she saw

@Elizabeth3 @phonner

I'd like to see what happens if they put a ten-year ban on major changes. Then look at the data. See if letting teachers get good at teaching with particular material makes a positive difference. I bet it would.

@Elizabeth3 @phonner

Spend the entire budget for new curriculum on snacks for after school activities then compare the test scores since everyone likes test scores so much.

I bet really good snacks would have a bigger impact. (Of course many teachers buy snacks out of pocket as it is, but now you have me staying at work late and PAYING to do it. So of course very few people want to do that. SNACKS NOW. You can't think deeply or have a school community if everyone is cranky and hungry.)

cognitively accessible math Aug 12, 2024

@futurebird @Elizabeth3 @phonner Illustrative Math is open source so a ton cheaper than most curricula

cognitively accessible math Aug 12, 2024

@futurebird @Elizabeth3 @phonner (tho' I believe Engage NY is too...)

CindyG Aug 12, 2024

@futurebird
Before he retired, the regular switching of reading curriculums drove my husband nuts.. Every one was going to be the magic formula, and he was there long enough to cycle through the same opposite approaches several times. There was no magic bullet, it took a good teacher who had the skill to adapt any set curriculum to a variety of students.

PhDog 🇮🇪Aug 12, 2024

I thought the POINT of the insight "different students have different learning styles" is that there is no magic bullet.

@bxknits @futurebird

CindyG Aug 12, 2024

@dogfox
One would think so. But especially after the “No Child Left Behind” scoring of schools came in, administrators were desperate for magic bullets.

Patrick Honner Aug 12, 2024

@Elizabeth3 @futurebird I'm pretty skeptical of any "dissertation" in education to begin with, even more so from superintendents, who in my experience are merely politically appointed bureaucrats.

We Must Dissent Aug 15, 2024

@Elizabeth3
Back in high school my physics teacher had actually written the book but did their best to both keep the older prints compatible as wel as just not needing the books (you were required to purchase them yourself back then) by showing as much as possible on the projector
@futurebird @phonner

Granted, tracking down phone numbers shouldn't really be the teacher's job. But, before I moved to a school that avoids this BS (the best schools in the city aren't subjected to this nonsense ... which says everything really) I simply used my time as effectively as possible and sometimes that meant updating the school contact list FIRST... and paying attention to whatever gimmick curriculum they were rolling out next LAST.

eg. being a teacher and teaching things.

It's not that curriculum design isn't important. It's just a very limited component in the issue.

It's like you are trying to throw life preservers to drowning people and there are some people arguing about the color and shape of the preservers. I mean... yes, I suppose yellow is a more visible color than green, but I can use either, and I could use some help getting these people out of the water.

eirias Aug 12, 2024

@futurebird @phonner why do you suppose it is that the solutions proposed are chronically skew to the ones that might help? Is it just because nobody wants to fund the useful ones? That seems incomplete — surely there is a cost to pulling in old textbooks and rolling out new ones also. I’m wondering if there is a higher level systems issue that could be changed to keep funders focused on more useful things.

@eirias @phonner

Admins have very little money to work with and the solutions everyone with experience knows will work are too expensive. The amount of money that can be flexible isn't enough to make a big impact in those areas (my suggestion of buying snacks instead is realistic.)

Snacks would have an impact, but wouldn't get the same publicity for the admins. So, it's tempting to switch out the books again even though everyone knows how it will end.

@eirias @phonner

For 100s of years we've been teaching math all wrong, but THIS TIME the superintendent has discovered the secret magic math book that will work and make huge gains!

Two years later either you proclaim that a natural fluctuation upwards in test scores is a success... or, if scores go down or stay the same you just pick another book and try again.

Solving Problems. Yay.

eirias Aug 12, 2024

@futurebird @phonner at my kid’s school my impression is that curriculum changes are teacher-led, in response to stuff they’ve noticed isn’t working well. A shame this can’t be the rule elsewhere, although I do see that in a large district some consistency across schools matters.

@eirias @phonner

This is how it ought to work, but this requires building in time for teachers to work collaboratively to develop their curriculum. (That's how it works at my school, it's great.)

But our schools outspends other schools on staffing and materials at a rate of 2:1 at least. There are many public schools that manage to do this, and it works, but you need to secure the funding.

John Maxwell Aug 12, 2024

@futurebird @phonner Yes, but that doesn't fit the "managers will fix it all with one simple pronouncement, using their godlike superior knowledge" myth that the managers love.