Randahl FinkAug 3, 2024

On all the Mastodon statistics sites, Mastodon is bleeding active users.

Examples:

Picture 1: https://mastodon.fediverse.observer/stats

Picture 2: https://fedidb.org/software/mastodon

I suspect this is due to Mark Zuckerberg embracing the ideas of the Fediverse and giving every Instagram user a Threads account that he controls.

Mastodon performs better, is more open, has better app choice, and will never have ads. Threads has critical mass.

The world will be far better if Mastodon wins, but right now Mastodon is losing.

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Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024

@randahl Mastodon has also some serious issues. Like depending on the instance, you may or may not see all the replies to a thread.

That's a massive oversight.

Show threadRandahl FinkAug 3, 2024

@kypeli if you are on a malfunctioning instance, why do you not switch?

I am on the main instance and it has become rock solid.

Show threadJohan Paul

@randahl Is my own instance malfunctioning you think?

It's just how the ActivityPub protocol works as it cannot know all the other instances in the fediverse.

Aug 3, 2024 at 5:56amWeb
Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024

@randahl And what you are saying about being on the main instance is basically that the federated nature of the Fediverse does not work and we have to move to main instances.

So we are back to Twitter and Threads.

Show threadRandahl FinkAug 3, 2024
@kypeli not necessarily. I think many instances work. The main instance was just an example.
Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024

@randahl It depends on how active they are meaning how many users they have meaning how much traffic they get.

They know only of the content and replies of all the messages they receive.

That's why me, on my single user instance, I don't see many of the replies to messages that have never entered my instance before someone I know interacts with it.

Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024
@randahl This is not an issue of the instance or the user. But the very foundation how the ActiivityPub protocol works, which is why by the definition, this is a subpar experience.
Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024
@randahl Which is why I am by no means surprised that people are looking for a more solid option, which is Threads. It gets all the benefits you mention on being on a big instance and the openness of ActivityPub.
Show threadRandahl FinkAug 3, 2024
@kypeli I have never experienced anything like that. And I have been quite active here since late 2022.
Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024

@randahl Have you been on low-traffic or single user instances at some point?

Instances can subscribe to "firehose" feeds of larger instances so they get extra content just in case anyone needs it at some point. But that's just a workaround to the flaws of ActivityPub.

Show threadШуроAug 3, 2024

@randahl @kypeli It happens and yes, it is by design.

Basically it works like email - you see all comments that are sent to you but if you are not the author and see someone's else post usually you don't see all the comments from other instances. It is not a big problem though.

Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024

@shuro @randahl Thanks for the clarification.

Just curious though. Why don't you think it's a big issue?

For me it was kinda the good thing about Twitter to see some random post or discussion and being able to see all of it.

Show threadШуроAug 3, 2024

@randahl @kypeli It can be seen as a bit annoying but it is not that big of an issue.

If you are the author you'll see all comments to your posts. Also you see all comments if they are made by your contacts (regardless to whom) and all comments made from/to your instance. This is why users of huge instances rarely notice it. Also you'll see comments your contacts already interacted with.

This adds additional value to boosting/resharing - you literally provide visibility to the content you consider valuable. Also it helps to reduce spam and toxicity - everyone can run their instance and join the network but if a spammer or a troll from malicious instance starts leaving comments on Randahl posts for example they won't immediately spread to the entire audience. However someone interesting will get reach because people will interact and create more and more visibility.

Also it has technical benefits - some instances are small, some are private. To see all comments everywhere they'd have to federate everything which would create a lot of load and be very expensive.

I am not saying it is perfect but it is another way and it has some benefits too.

Show threadRandahl FinkAug 3, 2024

@shuro one important benefit is system redundancy.

X can crash and become fully unavailable, as has happened on occasion.

I do not think we will see that with Mastodon. If one node goes down, others continue.
@kypeli

Show threadШуроAug 3, 2024

@randahl @kypeli You and me are a good example how this works by the way. My server is small, your server is personal. However we federated to each other when it mattered even though we are not familiar on the Fediverse.

But you likely wouldn't want to get all posts or comments in the world on your node and run a server cluster enough to power a small accounting company just in case you'll want to read one of them sometime :)

Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024

@shuro @randahl That's true, I would not :) That's why I don't have the firehose of extra feeds enabled in my instance.

But I would hope that the ActvitityPub protocol would be working so that if I am interested in some thread, it would allow the instance to fetch on-demand all the messages to that thread.

Show threadnaught101Aug 3, 2024

@kypeli @randahl

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. It's that federation doesn't work well below some critical inter-server interaction threshold. So single-user instances are probably always going to struggle, but small-medium instances from 30 to a few hundred active users should work reasonably well.

Show threadJohan PaulAug 3, 2024

@naught101 @randahl Yep, you are probably right. That's the nature of disturbed systems. The whole "run your own instance" doesn't work in practice though.

Larger or the main instances are a better option for the users.

But I'd still argue that this is a critical flaw in how the Fediverse works. As your experience depends on where you are. This is not an issue on single instance services (well they have multiple servers in the backend) like Threads.