Mastodawn

polygonia Jul 12, 2024

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops

One downside of running linux is that I have NO CLUE AT ALL about modern technology.

Like, I didn't know about USB-C laptop docks? I can run two monitors, ethernet, sound and a bunch of USB ports out of a box plugged into ONE hole on my laptop? And I don't have to buy a dock specifically for my specific make and model of laptop? And this is real?

The flipside of your software being so light it can run on a toaster is that you'll spend years quite happily running it on a toaster and then have no idea what's going on in the world outside, and this is like when I borrowed someone's truck and went to start it and looked all around the steering wheel and they said what's up and I said where's the bloody choke on this thing

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

Two notes, first the choke thing yes really did happen ("But what about if your throttle cable snaps?" I said), second even though it's impressive that you can squeeze all that fun through one tiny hole I still have Feelings about USB-C that run the gamut from Reservations through Concern through Vicious Mockery, oh you think you can pull FIVE SMEGGING AMPS through that tiny little thing do you, alright fine maybe??? for a little while??? when the connector's brand-new???

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

🐰 Dan I've been pulling five amps through this connector for five years now and it's fine

🦝 FIVE YEARS *IS* BRAND NEW GET OFF MY LAWN

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

🐁 We made a new invention where your monitors, network, controls and sound all go through one hole

🦝 so when that hole wears out, as all electric holes eventually do, the plan is...?

🐁 we're gonna make it wear out FASTER by pulling FIVE

🐁 SMEGGING

🐁 AMPS

🐁 through your one (1) Omni-Hole™

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

Five amps is about 31.25 quintillion (31,250,000,000,000,000,000) free electrons tryna squeeze through your hole in one second

They rub up against each other and that's why things get hot. A significant part of my job is replacing connectors that have burned to a crisp and gotten so angry that they've gone "Right, hell with this" and started to desolder themselves from the board

Electrons are real and they have mass, the more current you draw the more Physically Big the connector has to be, you cannot fix this with software or investment

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

One easy troubleshooting step in any electronics thing is turning the thing off and then poking your finger on all the connectors in turn until one of them gives you a scar, I look forward to doing this with your laptops in the near future

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

I have to use the backs of my knuckles now because my fingertips don't feel heat anymore because I've been a dumbass too long, but now I can pluck the packet-curry packets straight out of the boiling pot when the timer honks so y'know swings and roundabouts I spose

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

I did fix laptops too back in the day, and there were basically two things that went wrong

1) the bit between the motherboard and the screen was often a crappy little flexi ribbon cable coiled around the hinge like a mainspring, it wears out as you open and close the lappy and a wire eventually cracks, your screen would only work at certain angles and then it'd die completely

2) the charging hole wears out and you have to hold the wire just right

Aye there was sometimes other stuff, but those were 90% of the problems.

The best laptops - my beloved Toshiba Tecra M4 - had the charging hole as its own whole separate little assembly that plugged onto the motherboard on an internal connector like a JST or something

So you'd cycle the barrel jack connector a thousand times, and then you'd throw away the barrel jack hole and cycle the JST connector once, like the hour hand on the life clock of your motherboard

(the crap ones had the power socket soldered to the board and it was always a right bastard to desolder 'cause of the big ground plane sucking up all your heat)

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

I strongly suspect that these USB-C OmniHoles are gonna be surface mounted on weak little tiny pitch joints that I'll need my bloody microscope to even see never mind solder

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

Tryna jam all that information AND ALSO POWER through that tiny hole is probably gonna involve buying cables that are actually good and, like...

You shouldn't do that. You should never buy good changing cables! When you mate a connector, metal bends and fatigues and eventually breaks or gives up its sproing, any time two objects interact Something Has To Wear! The wear has to go *somewhere!*

Think I'm buying a ten-dollar charging wire? Am I bollocks, I don't want to have to spend hours fiddling around trying to put a new charging hole on my hundreds-of-dollars phone! Gimme the shit ones, let them wear out instead! Five for a tenner, that's the way!

But I dunno, something tells me I might need more than a trip to the pound shop for what USB-C's asking

John Wilson Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops usb c negotiates how much power it will send or receive based in part on the cable you use. Use the wrong cable and it will charge at 500mA.

From my experience, you want to buy good cables. If you don’t buy good cables then all kinds of weird shit happens. Like the power brick might refuse to charge the phone faster than the phone is using the battery. But the same cable will work just fine with another brick

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

@crazybutable once again the IT industry arbitrarily revokes my competence

John Wilson Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops with USB mini and USB micro you are absolutely right. I remember bending worn out prongs on some usb micro cables to get them to stick in the holes instead of falling out

But USB C is a nightmare. I have a prissy little camera that will sulk and shut down if you plug a cable in and you try to use it plugged in while it is charging and it can’t negotiate a high enough power rate.

The *only* thing that will give it the power it wants is a dodgy, off brand external battery pack

Puncha Not See Jul 12, 2024

@crazybutable @ifixcoinops

THIS! Weirdest thing ever. And only with the packs that I'm certain are going to burst.

Or with the cable looped in a particular way, the device placed atop it to hold the cable "just so" so it'll charge.

🌸

Karl Baron Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops @crazybutable It’s amazing, USB-C cables literally have a little computer inside of them (“eMarker”) to talk to your bigger computers.

N95 subnet mask 😷Jul 12, 2024

@kalleboo @ifixcoinops @crazybutable Has anyone managed to run Doom on a USB-C cable? 🤔

artsyhonker / Kathryn Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I read this while thing and still don't understand why your toaster has a choke ;-)

(I still kindof like the magnetic USB-C adapters, though I've fallen out of using them for the time being. Physically plugging in and unplugging stuff seems to be one of the things that does the most damage.)

Marcos Dione Jul 12, 2024

@artsyhonker @ifixcoinops I'm using those too. So far so good, except the phone keeps falling and I have to replace the connectors every 3mo, and I'm running out of, and the brand and model cannot be found anywhere else, so I'll have to switch brand/model when I run out.

Why did you stop using them?

artsyhonker / Kathryn Jul 15, 2024

@mdione @ifixcoinops similar issue of "the companies that make the magnetic adapters disappear into vapour at around the time I need a new one and I don't actually want to replace all my cables annually"

Alexis Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops In most cases, especially the ultra-slim designs, you'll find you're right.

I love this, so I Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops can confirm. Some of them have supporting legs on the shield that sucks up all the heat that go through holes on the board, and I’ve heard of one single socket that’s entirely through-hole connections - 20 or so pins

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

@jpm through-hole on USB-C? Well I mean on the one hand that's kind of a relief, I guess that makes structural sense for a connector, but I'm gonna need a muuuuch smaller nozzle on my desoldering pistol

I love this, so I Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops yeah, someone posted it once (maybe @mos_8502 ?) and I’ve never seen it again. It’s in the bowels of LCSC’s USB connectors page

John Wilson Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I got three omniholes and a MagSafe, which I could use

But I put my laptop in my bag right after transporting some rusty iron once (whoops) and now the MagSafe is covered in iron filings

I don’t trust the OS programming to keep the MagSafe from melting. I’ve taken some of the filings off with tape but I can still see plenty.

Getting the iron filings out of the omniholes was much harder.

It’s my work laptop so if it goes up in smoke, I’ll send it back and IT can deal with it

Jeff Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops This is why I love my framework. It's got 4 USB-Cloaca Omniholes. I use one for a dual-HDMI dock and a second one for the charging cable because stupid dock overheats because of everything you have said in this thread. The omniholes are on easily replaced daughter boards, so when the port goes, it's a 30 second swap with a new part from framework, and they put 3d models of the case online, and have encouraged people to use them to come up with other daughter boards.

Jeff Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I too run toaster capable Linux and BSD operating systems on my machines. Running them on new hardware is like dropping a giant hemi in a '33 Ford. It's so fast. You should try it.

Kevin Granade has moved Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I had a laptop once that lost it's barrel jack connection so I soldered a hard drive molex connector in and left it dangling out the back. That laptop got LOOKS.

Fluchtkapsel Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops
> So you'd cycle the barrel jack connector a thousand times, and then you'd throw away the barrel jack hole and cycle the JST connector once, like the hour hand on the life clock of your motherboard

That's the reason I now rolled out Framework laptops at my job. After a few years, the USB-C ports wear out and repairing them costs more than the laptop's worth at the time. But with Framework I expect to just swap out a USB-C module.

dogzilla Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I was told you have to release the blue smoke first

aburka 🫣Jul 12, 2024

@dogzilla @ifixcoinops incorrect. All electronics run on magic smoke but they need all of it, once any gets out they no longer work

xyhhx 🔻Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops lmao 😭

johnaldis Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops OK, so I had to read that five times because I misinterpreted both “packet” and “curry”.

Bill, organizer of stuff Jul 12, 2024

Athena L.M.Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops great now you've got me thinking we have to sandwich the USB-C ports in heat pipes

Klaus Vink Slott Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops
Reminds me of that episode of the Fully Charged Show, where the reviewer demonstrated some new car charger technology. Casually tapping the charging plug while blasting 300A at 800V into the car.
I was just thinking: Get away from that thing!
https://youtu.be/taehg2rZBpY?si=6xQ1U0zpOrI1DiIK

We Speed Tested The World's FASTEST Electric Car Charger!

YouTube

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

Jonathan Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops it's almost certainly intentional and also I'd like USBC XLR edition

Frank Jul 12, 2024

@jonbro @ifixcoinops Saw @jwildeboer talk about #USBCXLR as well. Might be a thing 😀

https://social.wildeboer.net/users/jwildeboer/statuses/112689722296210614

https://social.wildeboer.net/users/jwildeboer/statuses/112699872849166680

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (@[email protected])

Got a bunch of microcontrollers. Got a bunch of 4 pin XLR connectors. Got a bunch of #OpenSource projects that do USB-PD (Power Distribution) negotiation on said microcontrollers. Will produce an #AOPD prototype to charge my e-bike, e-scooter and e-skateboard with cheap adapter cables soon. https://jan.wildeboer.net/2024/06/Charging-SEVs-A-Modest-Proposal-AODP/

social.wildeboer.net

I love this, so I Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops it’s the cloaca of your computer

Deborah Pickett Jul 12, 2024

@jpm That's what the C in USB-C stands for. @ifixcoinops

Petra Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops yeah, I get displaylink docks that work over a standard usb A to B cable (in fact I quite like mine) but I'll be keeping that separate to my power cable even on my work laptop tyvm

Ongion 🥚🐞Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops it's alright because now you can get laptops that have 4 of those holes on them. Even if each hole only lasts 5 years, that's 20 years total!

🐙Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops the ports on the 2016 MacBook Pro that I used with a USB-C omnithingy that I plugged and unplugged daily for about 5 years and less often afterwards seemed to have held up pretty well.

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

@polpo so still brand new then

Eli the Bearded Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops @polpo

Don't worry, the connector is designed to wear out physically before it melts.

Samantha Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops just wait till you hear they wanna pull 140+ watt through said omni-hole (i forget the exact number)

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

@sammycola I mean aye crank the voltage up as far as it'll go without arcing but, like, there's a reason cars use 12v, it's because if they used 24v you'd be replacing all your bloody window-uppy-downy switches every two years

Samantha Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops it’s either 15v or 18v is the top end of USB-PD iirc, so all that’s left is to crank them amps, either way a nasty shock waiting to happen. at least it negotiates to push that power before it just dumps it

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

@sammycola nah, you can't hurt yourself with 18v unless you take it through your wedding ring and burn your finger, although I've seen 48v as a theoretical in some spec I just glanced at and yeah that's gonna give some folk a nice wake-up tingle on sweaty days

Joseph Nuthalapati

@ifixcoinops I have one five years old laptop that has one such failed USB-C port. It was the one I primarily used for charging the laptop. Now I have to charge it using another USB-C port.

Aaron Sawdey, Ph.D.Jul 16, 2024

@ifixcoinops Not that apple lightning connectors have 5 amps (more like 2 I think), but for me at least the failure mode has universally been the plug not the socket. Some tiny fraction of the gold plating on one particular contact gets vaporized every time you pull it out with the juice flowing. But nobody makes extra durable connectors with thick plating. Nobody even talks about this.

jordan Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops Ohoho I've even got some dubious magnetic coupling adapter from AliExpress on my USB-C port that I'm running power and video and keyboard and mouse and ethernet and whatever the fuck else through

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

@jordan I love those things, I got NetDot gen-10's and they're awesome until you let them dangle around on the floor and anything that sticks to the magnet will by definition short out your stuff

lopta Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I suspect it's not really 5A. Haven't looked at the spec. but ~521 mA at 48V is roughly equivalent to 5A at 5V and that's the kind of marketing asshattery I've come to expect from the consumer electronics industry. They certainly look more like half-Amp cables.

Games That I Missed Jul 12, 2024

@lopta @ifixcoinops Not to be the bearer of bad news, but the Raspberry Pi 5 expects 5A at 5V, and they recommend their own branded power supply for it. See page 3 here: https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/power-supply/27w-usb-c-power-supply-product-brief.pdf

It's not just a marketing thing anymore, it's getting very silly.

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops Jul 12, 2024

@GamesMissed @lopta good thing I'm done with the whole pi thing since they threw that cop tantrum

lopta Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops @GamesMissed Saw that happen and I was startled at their response.

Karl Baron Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I run my office refrigerator off of USB-C (it’s ostensibly for a car/camper so it just has 12V in) this generic 6 letter USB adapter has yet to complain about the compressor kicking in

mathew Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops The best thing about USB-C is I now have four different types of cable, with different capabilities, and they all look identical.

Is it power only? Power and data? Does it do video? Is it Thunderbolt? Good luck suckers!

technomancy Jul 12, 2024

@ifixcoinops I went to a coworking space today and since I don't have any 2-sided USB-C cables at home I had never encountered the experience of charging your monitor off your phone before but apparently that's a thing you can do