Spaceflight 🚀🇪🇺 The announced delay ⏳🥱 of #Ariane6 left #SpaceX as the only viable alternative https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-signs-security-deal-us-launch-satellite-spacex-elon-musk/
The #EuropeanUnion 🇪🇺 announced plans to launch 170 #satellites 🛰️ into #orbit between 2025 and 2027 https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/oct/15/billionaire-space-race-can-bezoss-project-kuiper-catch-up-to-musks-starlink
Launched 🚀 by... ?
Mostly Ariane, the price doesn't matter
> 50% SpaceX
ULA
ISRO
Poll ended at .
"Ambitious but achievable. Always. Of course, big dreams 💭 must always be kept within the bounds of what is technically feasible and financially 💰 affordable." https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Saturn_s_moon_Enceladus_top_target_for_ESA
🤔 So they won't launch it with #Ariane6 as of the #LaunchCost ? 🙄
Saturn's moon Enceladus top target for ESA
A fresh, icy crust hides a deep, enigmatic ocean. Plumes of water burst through cracks in the ice, shooting into space. An intrepid lander collects samples and analyses them for hints of life.ESA has started to turn this scene into a reality, devising a mission to investigate an ocean world around either Jupiter or Saturn. But which moon should we choose? What should the mission do exactly? A team of expert scientists has delivered their findings.
The lack of #competition has made it difficult to hash out a competitive offer with the #EU 🇪🇺 https://www.politico.eu/article/iris-2-eu-satellite-project-germany-delay/
#Monopolies tend to become less efficient and less innovative over time, becoming "complacent", because they do not have to be efficient or innovative to compete in the marketplace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#Monopoly_and_efficiency
#France 🇫🇷 and #Germany 🇩🇪 fund the majority of the Ariane 6 rocket's development costs. So, by rule, most of the design and manufacturing of the #Ariane6 rocket must take place in those nations. This strangles #competition among subcontractors and suppliers. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/05/europe-seeks-to-emulate-nasas-revolutionary-commercial-cargo-program/2/
Wolf480pl@spaceflight basically, noone wants to pay for a jobs program in another country
@wolf480pl such as this one ? 🤔🙄 https://techhub.social/@spaceflight/111230478082610445
Spaceflight 🚀 (@[email protected])
🇪🇺 #European taxpayers are subsidizing every launch of satellites for Jeff #Bezos by roughly $75 million. #ArianeGroup is asking for a substantial increase 📈 to 350 million euros 💰 a year. https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/10/oops-it-looks-like-the-ariane-6-rocket-may-not-offer-europe-any-launch-savings #Amazon #Kuiper
@spaceflight hmm I forgot the details about that one - does it go straight from EU budget, bypassing the geo-return rule?
@wolf480pl almost three quarters of #Amazon’s profits in the #EU were not taxed https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/eu-court-amazon-tax-deal-with-luxembourg-was-legal. The headquarters are in #Seattle. So where would you see the "return" ? 🤔. The EU budget isn't equal to #ESA's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency#Member_states,_funding_and_budget
Amazon wins EU court fight over $300 million tax ruling
In the latest setback to European Union efforts to tackle corporate tax avoidance, a court annulled a ruling by the European Commission that a tax deal between Amazon and Luxembourg's government amounted to illegal state support.
@spaceflight I know the EU budget is not equal to ESA, which is why I'm asking which budget the ArianSpace subisdy comes from
In any case, whether Amazon's HQ is in Seattle is irrelevant. It's not Amazon that's being subsidized, it's ArianeSpace, and ArianeSpace creates jobs in EU, not in Seattle
You could even look at it that way: Amazon is subsidizing EU's military satellite launch vehicle
The problem is if the countries who pay to EU budget are not the ones in which ArianSpace creates jobs
@spaceflight and by "creates jobs" I don't just mean in the sense of fighting unemployment and keeping money at home, I also mean in terms of developing sovereign capabilities.
If all you wanted was to launch one satellite, the most efficient way to do this is pay SpaceX to launch it on Falcon 9.
But what European countries want is the _ability_ to maybe launch a satellite in the future without asking other countries for permission.
@wolf480pl whatever it costs, as it's anyway only taxpayer money 🙄
@spaceflight and how much is your country spending on its military?
anyway my point is, yes, those subsidies to ArianSpace look questionable. Also fuck Amazon.
But I think analyzing these things from a purely market-efficiency standpoint is a mistake. These are strategic capabilities, so geopolitics play a role in every decision, just like when buying weapons or building gas pipelines.
@wolf480pl so which part of this sentence did you misunderstand ? "🇪🇺 #European taxpayers are subsidizing every launch of satellites for Jeff #Bezos by roughly $75 million" https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/10/oops-it-looks-like-the-ariane-6-rocket-may-not-offer-europe-any-launch-savings/
@spaceflight the part where the article's author assumed that ArianeSpace would not receive that money if Amazon didn't book the launches.