The Fediverse seems thrilled with Jews leaving the platform through continued widespread antisemitism.
I'm
Please don't go.
I don't plan on leaving, but I'm seeing many Jews discussing doing exactly this.
And go where? X is far worse. Threads isn't a good alternative either. I'm going to stay here and fight.
Good. I need you here, brother.
I think the answer to what to do if you're a smaller instance is hard, which actually points to a flaw in the Fediverse design, which is that the larger your instance is, the more unacceptable the behavior it can perform and still be "too big to fail".
I'll come back to your question, but let me explain what I mean first.
Let's say you're a small/medium size instance, not a boutique 10 person instance, but a 200-1000 person instance, and you're really upset with the way that a huge instance is behaving, one with 50k users.
You can't really choose to de-federate from it, because if you did that, then your users would suddenly be unable to communicate with friends, popular accounts, etc.
The power differential is too big, so nothing bad happens to the large instance.
Now let's bring that back to your question...
1/2
The issue I see is that instances by in large don't treat antisemitism seriously, and the only way to excerpt control over that would be to "hurt them" by de-fedderating from them. That's the only serious moderation measure other sites have.
But the problem is that this needs to happen by such a large number of sites that it's going to really be felt by the larger instance, and what we on Babka Social see is precisely the opposite, that many sites are explicitly antisemitic, or they take a "hands off" approach, or whatever.
This models the issue in real life which we're seeing.
So the answer is if you're a small instance, take antisemitism on your server seriously, and if someone complains, take that seriously.
Maybe we need a collaboration on antisemitism, since the safety groups on the Fediverse now have either not addressed it, or are openly antisemitic themselves.
2/2
You're the second person to ask, so now I'm feeling bad. You're on a server run by a good person.
I think my ask for you would when you see antisemitism, say something. Break the narrative without being a Jew.
That's not always easy to do, and I don't expect anyone to do it all of the time.
I'm reminded of a situation that happened about twenty years ago. I was at a gaming event and there were these two guys who I've come to learn (or at least speculate) were actually KKK members, and they talked to my friend and me- clearly looking to see if they had found some sympathizers.
They started talking about how "the Blacks took all the jobs" and how the "real minority in this country are white men". It was me and a white friend of mine.
At the time, I was pretty scared and I just made vaguely disapproving statements without getting specific. I was afraid they'd find out I was a Jew and hurt me.
Looking back, I wish I'd have said something and made a scene.
1/2
I don't think people should put themselves at risk, but if you are part of a conversation and someone talks about the "bloodthirsty Zionists" or whatever, interrupt their narrative.
If more people did that, made it not socially acceptable to be antisemitic, it would go a long way.
2/2
@gqcwwjtg Your answer shows that you know that you only have a vague idea what Zionism is.
Wikipedia would have you covered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
The part you’re missing: "an effort to put a stop to the exoduses and persecutions that have marked Jewish history".
You can criticize some actions done for some concrete variety of Zionism, but by demonizing Zionism in general you deny the right of Israel — and any home for Jews — to exist.
1/2
@gqcwwjtg And a positive interpretation is that you have no idea about antisemitism.
And go on to defend a term even though you know that you do not know what it means.
Saying "bloodthirsty zionists" is similar to saying "child-molesting gays". Except that saying "bloodthirsty" to slander Jews goes back much further.
See i.e.: https://www.abc.net.au/religion/dominant-themes-in-contemporary-antisemitic-discourse/10095908
I hope you understand now why defending this term — even worse: in a thread about antisemitism — gets you blocked.
@gqcwwjtg In general, taking a term of which you know that you don’t really know what it means and prefixing it with "bloodthirsty" is offensive.
Even if you didn’t know how much worse this becomes when it ties into the ages-old blood libel slander against Jews, this general rule should be obvious.
And when a Jew calls you out on that, the right way to act is to pause and do some reading whether there’s something big you missed.
Like centuries of massacres.
Zionism is the belief that Jews deserve the right to self-determination and a Jewish state, in the same way that there are Christian states all over most of the Western world, and there are many Arab states in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa.
I elaborate more on a blog post I wrote several years ago
If you'd like a "What iz Zionism" that isn't from me, I recommend the Youtube channel Unpackaed, which talks about this and many other Jewish topics.
This video on Zionism gives a longer perspective on Judaism, and while it's longer, it's highly condensed and simplified.
There are many types of Zionists, motivated for different reasons, and with different visions. That's why I consider Zionism to be a religious, rather than a political belief, despite me being a Secular Zionist, there are those that are close to me who have different reasons for their Zionism, and whose politics differ from mine.
@serge Oh, no. I definitely was wondering if it would read critically and I didn’t mean that!
Thanks for answering and saying that. Black people have been asking for that kind of intervention for years and years and honestly Jewish people have been excellent allies to me everywhere I’ve been. Sometimes in moments it’s hard to get your bearing so I get it.
Social justice is built into Jewish thought, not just Judaism as a religion, but as a culture.
Sometimes we disagree on what that justice looks like but generally that commitment to social justice is "built in", starting with "Do not stand idly by" and going from there, through Talmud, and beyond.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/do-not-stand-by-the-blood-of-your-neighbor/
But it's more than this... it's not just a rule, but I'm reminded of the seder, and the way that Jews remind ourselves of our own state, of being slaves in Egypt, and the way that we ourselves needed help (by God) to get out of this.
I'm not saying Jews are saints, we're not, but this specifically is important. It's a core Jewish value.
I plan on staying and being Jewish harder
I report hate when I see it. #FediAntisemitism 👈🏼
I can't stop any of you from leaving but in my opinion your presence makes this a better place.
Shalom
me
Saying, "Israel should stop butchering tens of thousands of men, women, and children while they starve to death in Gaza." isn't antisemitism.
Anti-genocide isn't antisemitism.
... only interacting with people on Babka.
@serge I’m trying to fight the antisemitism here, but I feel that I’m failing.
On this instance, the admins are swift to block antisemitism, but it feels like it’s so widespread that this needs more than just some people. Maybe a structured information campaign to spread awareness.
But doing that right needs people in the know — i.e. civil servants with experience fighting discrimination. Or the @auschwitzmuseum to cover the ground in an order which works on social media.
@serge Jewish and not seeing widespread antisemitism. I'm not at all denying it exists here — I trust what folks like you are saying — but it isn't in my timeline. I guess that's a factor of what I post about (not generally Israel or Gaza) and who I follow. And my instance is well moderated.
Not going anywhere.
I am making fotos and videos for Wikipedia. This includes documenting events and protests against anti-semitism:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Kippa_Walk_Hannover_May_2018
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Anti-Semitism_Commissioner_Michael_Blume_dedicating_his_win_at_LG_Frankfurt_to_Anthony_Fauci_who_was_attacked_by_Elon_Musk_after_the_press_conference_in_Haus_der_Geschichte_Baden-Wuerttemberg.webm @BlumeEvolution
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J%C3%BCdisches_Leben_ist_keine_Provokation
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Israel_solidarity_protest_Berlin_2023-10-08
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Israel_solidarity_protest_Berlin_2023-10-22
@serge The label antisemitism has recently been used to address topics that I'd not see as antisemitism like asking for a ceasefire in Gaza, like MSF , Oxfam and the UN do.
This inflationary use of the term means to me that the term looses its meaning to me.
When you say widespread antisemitism in the Fediverse, I personally have not seen a lot of antisemitic posts from the people I follow.
If you consider Oxfam and MSF as antisemitic, then I would say this term is politically used.
Indeed, nothing tells people that they're unsafe more than when they say "There's a safety issue" for them to be told "There's no problem. It's all in your head, and you're probably doing ti with malicious intent."
People like this are the problem.
@JamesRhodes @serge Your post is the only only answer to mine that is not just hatred without content.
I understand antisemitism as rejection of jews just because they are jews, not for what a concrete person has done.
I have seen enough antisemitism in my life. From my grandma, from friends, from pupils writing graffiti...
Yesterday evening when following new posts I mindfully scanned for antisemitism and I didn't even see a single post I'd consider antisemitic.
1/x
@JamesRhodes @serge There was a post about police violence against the students protesting in the U.S. I'm convinced there are severe antisemites among the protesters, but there are also jews protesting.
There was a post about Lily Greenberg Call resigning because she sees the way the Biden administration treats the Gaza conflict as contributing to genocide. But she is a jew.
There was a post showing an image of thousands of people in Tel Aviv demonstrating against the Netanjahu government.2/x
@JamesRhodes @serge So either
* We don't talk about the same posts or
* We don't talk about the same thing or
* I'm not able to detect the antisemitism you see in some posts.
3/x
@JamesRhodes @serge Most likely we are not discussing the same posts. It heavily depends upon whom you are following, since mastodon does not use a timeline algorithm to feed very "successfull" post from unfollowed people to me.
My mastodon instance is that of the green party, only accessible to members of the green party. Aggegated feeds like https://gruene.social/explore contain little antisemitism.
I'm sure I could find antisemitism in the fediverse if I'd actively search for it.
4/x
@JamesRhodes @serge Or we are not discussing the same thing. When Antonio Gutteres asked for a ceasefire in the security council, some jews framed this as antisemitism. Like here:
https://www.juedische-allgemeine.de/israel/warum-un-generalsekretaer-guterres-antisemitisch-handelt/
MSF asks also for an immediate ceasefire and also brought the matter before the security council:
https://www.aerzte-ohne-grenzen.de/presse/gaza-un-weltsicherheitsrat-forderung-waffenstillstand
Oxfam asks for an immediate ceasefire:
Considering all these organizations as antisemites is an interpretation I intentionally don't share. 5/x
@JamesRhodes @serge And there could be the case that there is antisemitism that I don't recognize due to missing knowledge.
For example I found this interesting:
https://www.bpb.de/themen/antisemitismus/dossier-antisemitismus/328693/antisemitismus-in-der-bds-kampagne/
Especially the part about UN-Resolution 194. This is not flattering for neither the UN, the Arab states nor Israel.
I'm sure that there are other similar ways of hiding a conflict before an untrained eye.
6/x
@JamesRhodes @serge And now about the answers to my first post in this thread: I've hardly ever seen so much hatred in the Fediverse as in these replies.
This is a highly polarized conflict, causing people to react with hatred in ways that are not helpful.
7/7
Serge from Babka
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