BennetMay 8, 2024

@Tooden @PatternChaser
Neither #ADHD nor #autism is 100% heritable, so by definition there must be an environmental component to both. That could be very early environment - I think there's research about trauma in childbirth being involved - so we might still be essentially born with it. Even so, our genes shape our response to any environmental factors, and the environment shapes the way our genetics translates to phenotype, for any complex trait.

That said, it's true that ADHD is defined for diagnostic purposes as interfering with function, which might make diagnosis more sensitive to environment.

Show threadPatternChaserMay 8, 2024

@DrMcStrange @Tooden

Indeed. But diagnosis is just a way for an external observer (probably NT) to recognise the condition.

Symptoms are not a *description* of the condition, but only a diagnostic aid, which is something rarely mentioned. And it should be, because it's important, IMO.

Show threadBennetMay 9, 2024

@PatternChaser @Tooden
I agree with you on the first point.

I don't think the distinction between symptoms and description is quite as clearcut as you suggest. Behaviour, consciousness, and neurology are all aspects of the same thing, and I wouldn't say any one of them is more fundamental than the others, since there are feedbacks between all three.

Show threadPatternChaserMay 9, 2024

@DrMcStrange @Tooden

In the simple case (common cold, maybe?), if you have the symptoms, you have the disease; if you have the disease, you have the symptoms.

#Autism and #ADHD don't work that way. Symptoms are diagnostic aids, as DSM-5 suggests. And they're the best *diagnostic aids* we've yet found. But they don't *describe* the condition at all. 😥

Description also requires care, for #autism is different from the outside (particularly to an NT) and from the inside. #ADHD too.

#AuDHD

Show threadBennet
@PatternChaser @Tooden
Sure. I don't even know how I'd describe ADHD from the inside! I do think at least some of the symptoms (executive dysfunction, I'm looking at you) would be part of it though.
May 9, 2024 at 10:04pmWeb
Show threadPatternChaserMay 10, 2024

@DrMcStrange @Tooden

Of course 'symptoms' will probably feature in a description. But consider autists, and our "difficulties with social communication". This is a valuable diagnostic aid, but it isn't *caused* by autism. It's caused because NTs can't understand how or why we use language. In this example, the symptom is not part of, or caused by, the condition.

I suspect there are other examples too, for #autism, #ADHD, and maybe others too...?