VerbTELEVISIONS ARE JUST SCREENS
they dont need to be smart
make them dumb
make everything dumb immediately
they dont need to be smart
make them dumb
make everything dumb immediately
Mister Moo 🐮@SarraceniaWilds I've never allowed a television to connect to the internet and I never will.
Dan GoodinSo y'all do without streaming then? What do you watch?
The 500 Hats of LambdaCalculus@dangoodin @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds DVDs and Blu-Rays, VHS tapes and LaserDiscs. Or build a Plex or Jellyfin server and make a Kodi or OSMC box, connect the two, and build your own library.
Need media? Reject modernity; embrace tradition! 
@LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
So many things wrong with what y'all are advising:
Do you use debit cards? if so, marketers are scooping up tons more data than from your purchases than they are from streaming.
Telling folks that the only way they can be safe on online is to do with without major platforms that provide tons more viewing choices is not a good way to go. It makes security unnecessarily hard and depriving.
There was a time when DVDs and completely booked the traditional means. Shaming people for using smart TVs is unnecessarily alarmist and not at all constructive.
@dangoodin @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds Hey, you asked what we would do without streaming. I gave you an answer. Jumping down my throat and calling me alarmist is not constructive to this conversation. If you don't like my answer, you can simply mute me and walk away and not carry this further.
No one is twisting your arm to do what we do. If you want to use a smart TV, go ahead. That's your prerogative; I ain't your parent to tell you what to do.
I personally do not want a smart TV. If I need a device for streaming, I would rather just buy a separate device for that, like a Roku or something. That way, if I really *don't* want any streaming at all, it's as easy as unplug the Roku and back in the box it goes. Even now, my Roku's major usage is just for Plex and a couple of additional bits like the SomaFM channel and New Ellijay's streaming TV channel. But if people ask for alternative means, then we should be able to share with them some alternative means of watching stuff. If people also want to watch physical media, who are we to tell them no?
Long and short, lay off people who present an alternative to the mainstream.
@LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
Please re-read my reply. No one called you alarmist. It's the advice in this thread that is alarmist. Big difference.
In what universe is it dangerous to hook a smartTV to the Internet, but using a Roku is safe?
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/02/18/roku-privacy
Thinking Roku is safer than a smart TV is completely unfounded and a good example why the advice y'all are giving is antithetical to true security and privacy.
Bob K Mertz 
@dangoodin
A separate device is easier to kill. You need your TV for everything ahs therefore everything is captured.... Playing console games, Blu-Ray, etc is all captured by your TV. Even more so it's a lot cheaper to replace an external Roku is they start going batshit crazy with ads whereas it's not a trivial thing to buy a new TV.
So yes, there is a HUGE difference between having an external device connected to the internet versus the primary device (TV).
@LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
Von Xylofon@bobkmertz @dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds You can use a smart TV disconnected perfectly fine. Did that for a year with a Kodi box before putting the TV online also. It worked like any other TV would, and I don't see how it can use the captured stuff when it's not online.
@vonxylofon
Agreed.... The only thing in the back of my mind is whether it looks for open wifi or is pre-populated with keys for things like Xfinity routers. But yes, never connecting it *should* be the same and what I said does still applym
@dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
Agreed.... The only thing in the back of my mind is whether it looks for open wifi or is pre-populated with keys for things like Xfinity routers. But yes, never connecting it *should* be the same and what I said does still applym
@dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
@bobkmertz @dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds True, but that's true of any device with a PCB. I have no real way of seeing it has or hasn't got an antenna or an extra processor that does shady stuff. It's all based on trust.
Tersoo Akaahan@LambdaCalculus @dangoodin @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
he probably has no real idea about #smartdevices
he probably has no real idea about #smartdevices
YetAnotherGeekGuy 
@dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @SarraceniaWilds I don't care for the advertising practices of smart TV vendors (https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-commercials-content-store), nor do I care to use apps built into my TV which will gradually get slower and lose compatibility over time, nor do I appreciate remote controls themselves being turned into ads for streaming providers. That doesn't mean I don't stream. I'm just more conscientious about what devices I use to stream.
@MisterMoo @LambdaCalculus @SarraceniaWilds
Let me guess: you use a Roku because you think it's safer than a smart TV?
@dangoodin @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds The Roku is not part of my smart TV. I would *never* buy a TV with a Roku built into it. It's a physically separate device, that, at any given time, I can easily just disconnect and put away.
Buying a smart TV is still a far more dangerous avenue; you don't have nearly as much control because the components are baked in. Short of opening the TV and physically ripping the components out (which is way past most average consumers), your hands are tied.
We let computers and such devices get way too comfortable in our lives, and it's really disgusting that you can hardly even get a non-smart TV nowadays, and even when you find one, the prices tend to be worse.
Telling people they're safer buying a smart TV just reeks of irresponsibility to me. At least the separate Roku device can be unplugged and removed. The smart TV can't.
@LambdaCalculus
I have an APC surge strip that had a master outlet and then switched outlets. The master outlet senses a higher power draw so when I turn on my TV it gives power to my Roku and when my TV gets powered off it kills the power to my Roku. I don't want that thing talking on my network all the time.
@dangoodin @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
I have an APC surge strip that had a master outlet and then switched outlets. The master outlet senses a higher power draw so when I turn on my TV it gives power to my Roku and when my TV gets powered off it kills the power to my Roku. I don't want that thing talking on my network all the time.
@dangoodin @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
Kartik Agaram@dangoodin It's _using_ smart TVs that makes security hard. For example: https://consumerist.com/2017/01/06/ransomware-spreading-onto-smart-tvs-is-a-pain-to-fix
It's _responsible_ to educate people about the unanticipated and potentially severe consequences of their buying decisions. Particularly _before_ they make smart TVs a part of their habits/lives.
As a programmer, we've already let computers too far into our lives. It seems worth at least fighting a rearguard action against the parts we can still control.
@akkartik @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
It's perfectly safe to connect name-brand TVs to the internet and stream. There's no more risk from that than pirating the movie and watching it on your home network. There's no more risk than connecting a Roku to the internet. Just make sure you take 2 minutes to follow the guidelines here. It's irresponsible to tell people otherwise.
@dangoodin I don't understand why you're repeating yourself. Your link discusses privacy, not security.
You'll also need to elaborate on how pirating a movie is a security risk.
I've never used Roku. I do use first-gen chromecast. But I get to turn it on and off, and I will toss it at the first sign of malfeasance. Easier than tossing a TV. I have leverage.
Telling me I'm irresponsible, jeez, I left Twitter to avoid unjustified rhetoric.
@akkartik @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
There is no data I'm aware of that shows that streaming Netflix, Hulu, et al. is safer with a PC than with a smartTV.
Playing movies, especially pirated ones, downloaded from the internet runs the risk you're going to get a trojan.
2. I can teach my $non_techsavvy_relative to check file extensions before clicking on them.
1. I guess I need to repeat myself now. Check out my link above. TVs and other consumer IoT devices don't get patched as frequently as computers. They also historically don't take security as seriously.
I'd listen to an argument that things have improved. It's possible it's only rain now. But don't tell me nobody's ever pissed on me before.
@dangoodin
It's called digital fingerprinting. In the same way Shazam can tell you what song you are listening to your TV can identify what media you are watching by tracking only small sections of the screen at spaced out intervals. It's not about just Netflix, Hulu, etc.... It's that every single thing you watch your TV can fingerprint and phone home with.
@akkartik @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
It's called digital fingerprinting. In the same way Shazam can tell you what song you are listening to your TV can identify what media you are watching by tracking only small sections of the screen at spaced out intervals. It's not about just Netflix, Hulu, etc.... It's that every single thing you watch your TV can fingerprint and phone home with.
@akkartik @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
Darwin Woodka@akkartik @dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
oh you'll find plenty of reply guys here as well
solaslux@dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
Why would anyone trust that the settings being exposed with switches to toggle are sufficient to protect their privacy when the switches are being provided by the data harvesters?
Safer to bypass the switches and use another device, preferably one you can customize more completely, and allow, as the OP requested, to just use a dumb screen as a screen.
Streaming doesn't even enter into the equation, there are many ways to enjoy media without the streaming cable-replacements.
So this is where the @dangoodin crusade in defence of "smart" TVs began? Someone said try Jellyfin instead and you were all "that's wrong because debit cards"? Who needs TV for entertainment, when we have threads like these.
silverwizard@dangoodin @LambdaCalculus @MisterMoo @SarraceniaWilds
Dan
Dan
DanDanDan
Dan
Are you saying that smart TVs are perfectly safe if you follow a giant listicle of things you need to do?!
That's the solution? every consumer should know what the safe docs are and follow them?
@silverwizard @MisterMoo @dangoodin @SarraceniaWilds A smart TV company probably paid him to write that list.