Ruben Schade  🔰 🇦🇺Apr 13, 2024

Linux people, *please* understand this. Sometimes people need to run Windows.

They’re allowed to complain about Windows ads, or tracking, or any other enshittification problems, without you saying “use Linux” every time.

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Update: I regret posting this.

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Update 2: I've addressed the most common comments below. I'm muting this thread now. Lesson learned!

https://rubenerd.com/people-who-need-to-run-windows/

Rubenerd

By Ruben Schade in s/Singapore/Sydney/. 🌻

Show threadmirabilosApr 13, 2024

@rubenerd why?

No, I mean, really. Why does someone "have" to use it.

Show threadAdam Thompson

@mirabilos @rubenerd Are you serious? Because of proprietary software that only runs under Windows (not WINE) that I have to use to get a paycheque.

MS Teams (the native client) comes to mind. Not running it could get me fired. MS Outlook (again, the native client with native COM plug-ins) comes a very close second. Web versions are not an option for either product, here, for sound technical/functional reasons.

I greatly enjoy what I do, so I choose to run UNIX on the servers and Windows on my laptop in order to continue getting paid to enjoy doing what I do.

Apr 13, 2024 at 2:46pmWeb
Show threadMagicLike 🏳️‍🌈Apr 13, 2024

@athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd I mean you *could* run it in a VM under Linux

*ducks and runs away  *

(to clarify I too run Windows as a dual boot for some occasions, so I totally get the point)

Show threadAdam ThompsonApr 13, 2024
@MagicLike @mirabilos @rubenerd I can't, even - Teams' "presence" features don't work well, if it all, that way.
Show threadpunIssuerApr 13, 2024
@MagicLike but that still leaves you with having to run windows. In an even less supported / well tested setup nonetheless...
@athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd
Show threadScruffy looking packet herderApr 13, 2024
@mirabilos @athompso @rubenerd Optical transport networks exist and somebody needs to run them. ( Thankfully not me. But my work friends certainly do need to. )
Show threadScruffy looking packet herderApr 13, 2024
@rubenerd @mirabilos @athompso Also too. Nobody likes evangelical anythings. Ever. Y’all are just annoying AF. If I didn’t already not use Linux I’d rage quit it again just to not be associated with your toxic fandom.
Show threadFoolishOwlApr 13, 2024
@athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd A big problem that my attention has been drawn to is that Linux accessibility tools are severely lacking. So for some people, it is literally not possible to use Linux. That's a problem that could be solved, but telling people who cannot use Linux that they must use Linux isn't helping at all.
Show threadAdam ThompsonApr 13, 2024
@foolishowl @mirabilos @rubenerd it's not just Linux - even Windows 11 itself has become significantly harder to use without a mouse, for example, and someone at MS continues to have a raging hate on for contrast in UI elements.
Show threadFoolishOwlApr 13, 2024

@athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd There are a lot of times I complain about people not using open source software, and I often feel it's a bit annoying that people complain about all the open source advocacy on a federated network built by open source advocates using open source tools in order to escape proprietary networks.

But I have to remind myself we can't just ignore real problems with open source and that people are compelled to make compromises. We have to actively make things better.

Show threadmirabilosApr 13, 2024
@foolishowl @athompso @rubenerd yes, of course. I’m doing what I can to make OSS better.
Show threadloriApr 13, 2024
@foolishowl @athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd yeah I was looking into Linux screen reader tools at one point and god it's a nightmare
Show threadHellaApr 13, 2024

@athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd
There probably is still a lot of proprietary software which is really not running on Linux, but MS Teams (at least for chat and video conference) is running quite OK in a web browser or as (unofficial) electron app: https://teamsforlinux.de

I use web outlook for mail and calendar, so I don't know if I miss any functionality in comparison to the official app 🤷

(I'm in the fortunate position that I haven't had to use Windows on my work computer for decades)

Teams for Linux

Show threadSteven D. Brewer 🏳️‍⚧️Apr 13, 2024

@athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd I remember seeing rms once, totally seriously and with a straight face, tell someone who said something like this that they were "still making a choice" and they could "choose to have a lower standard of living" and "remain true to their values".

Personally, I've only used Windows like 10 times ever. But I'm not going to tell someone else what to do.

Show threadmirabilosApr 13, 2024

@stevendbrewer @athompso @rubenerd I want people to be more aware of the choices they are making regarding giving up personal freedom, so they can then make informed decisions.

Most of the people replying are prime examples of species that really needs this food-for-thought and start thinking, stop whining.

Show threadSteven D. Brewer 🏳️‍⚧️Apr 13, 2024
@mirabilos @athompso @rubenerd Regardless of whether I live in a glass house or not, I just try not to throw stones. It doesn't add to any decor, honestly.
Show threadmirabilosApr 13, 2024
@stevendbrewer @athompso @rubenerd point (though xkcd#386 applies), but the RMS comparison was a bit below the beltline as well.
Show threadKevin RussellApr 13, 2024

@mirabilos @stevendbrewer @athompso @rubenerd

Yes of course.

Show threadrandom thoughtsApr 13, 2024

@athompso @mirabilos @rubenerd

Teams works fine on Linux for a long time (https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/microsoft-teams-progressive-web-app-now-available-on-linux/ba-p/3669846)

Microsoft Teams progressive web app now available on Linux

We’re excited to announce the general availability of support for the Microsoft Teams progressive web app (PWA) as a feature of our current web client for..

TECHCOMMUNITY.MICROSOFT.COM
Show threadmusicmatze  Apr 14, 2024

@athompso
Okay, now I am really curious... Both softwares you mentioned have alternatives that run in a browser ... What are the technical/functional reasons you mentioned?

I'm genuinely curious! 🤔
@mirabilos @rubenerd

Show threadAdam ThompsonApr 14, 2024
@musicmatze @[email protected] @rubenerd Teams web can't do presence detection reliably (more like "at all" IMHO), and screen sharing is marginal at best. Audio latency is often unacceptable.

Outlook for web shares a name and a back-end with the desktop client but not much else - completely different UI, no integration into other apps, different functionality compared to desktop, and no plugin architecture. Yes it sends and receives email, but there's so much more to Outlook than that!