FuckFuckNo. 🤦♀️
I just want a search engine that works. I have zero need for a godawful "AI" hallucinating mansplainer in my results. Just… no.
Time to move off of DDG. What else is out there?
Edit: yes, it seems to be for real:
https://www.reddit.com/r/duckduckgo/comments/1adxgy4/give_duckduckgo_ai_chat_a_spin/
Attached: 1 image Ok, #Qwant probably wants to be removed from my search engines. It works (only for one action) by clicking "I have disabled ...", but.. hum.. maybe as a secondary engine for comparisons.
@katzenberger @rysiek @MarkAssPandi All search engines make money from advertising. You just expect them to be 100% free to use and ad-free and cover their expenses how?
I don't think its unreasonable for Qwant to ask to show you ads, especially if they are implemented in a privacy-preserving non-tracking way. The alternative would be to pay a subscription for Qwant.
Elsewhere, Mojeek is nice, but they also introduced AI recently.
@MarkAssPandi @rysiek @katzenberger
Someone should update the comparison table on Wikipedia to help people find a good search engine.
🔴 Google = AI / Ads / Tracking
🔴 Bing = AI / Ads / Tracking
🔴 Brave = Cryptocurrency / AI / Anti-LGBT*
🟠 DuckDuckGo = Ads / AI
🟠 Kagi = AI
🟠 Mojeek = Ads / AI
🟠 You.com = Ads / AI
🟡 Qwant = Ads
🟡 Startpage = Ads
🟡 Searx = Complicated
🟢 ???
* Brave CEO has previously financially supported anti-gay marriage law campaigns
@phi1997 @MarkAssPandi @rysiek @katzenberger Linked up in the thread ☝️ but also here for your convenience 👇
@matt @MarkAssPandi @rysiek @katzenberger @svenja One thing I'm missing is a search engine that offers subscription.
I don't like subscriptions that much but for a search engine I think it's the most viable model if we want to avoid Ads and tracking. Someone has to pay to keep the lights on.
@xgebi both Kagi and Mojeek do.
@xgebi That is what Kagi was offering. They dabble in AI, so if you don't mind that, then there's that.
Same with Brave. They offer a Premium plan:
@xgebi I'm very happy paying for Kagi. With DDG I found myself reverting to Google often; with Kagi I don’t.
(I disable the "AI" by default but sometimes use it explicitly.)
@MarkAssPandi @matt @rysiek @katzenberger (Answering you as well here, @melgu 🙂 )
Hehe, yeah I get that - hence the FWIW.
(Maybe it's not worth much. 😅) (1/3)
I'm a bit torn on Kagi: I don't like some of the stuff they do (I love neither AI or Brave), but I _do_ love that there's an ad-free search engine that gives me legitimately better results than Google, and stuff like the Small Web initiative (https://blog.kagi.com/small-web).
So I guess I've landed on “_dabling_ with AI not being a deal-breaker, if there's enough stuff to weigh up for up”. But I have no problem with others reaching a different conclusion. (2/3)
search engines
asking that one really smart person on that one IRC channel/Discord server/forumsearch.marginalia.nu is a small independent do-it-yourself search engine for surprising but content-rich websites that never ask you to accept cookies or subscribe to newsletters. The goal is to bring you the sort of grass fed, free range HTML your grandma used to write.
@matt Quite. I'd prefer to pay a reasonable amount and not serve my data up to anyone, but that comes from a position of privilege that not everyone enjoys. (See also: paying for my email hosting.)
I think search is a tricky enough problem that it would be hard to justify a business model based on payments, given that most people don't care enough about their privacy to support it. And it's not like there's an alternative we can self-host either!
As you are probably aware (by now), not all search engines make money from advertising. Your speculations about my expectations are incorrect, as well.
@matt @katzenberger @rysiek @MarkAssPandi
For what it's worth, if we have to do the "lesser evils" thing, I don't see how dropping Mojeek (which has its own index) due to LLM in favor of what will almost inevitably be something using Google or Bing's index is a net positive.
Really the next step is to consider smaller independent indexes (Stract, Right Dao, Alexandria, Yep, etc.) but it seems most folks consider those not usable yet. (personally I disagree, but that's its own can of worms).
@jeruyyap Yuppp. I’ve personally been quite happy with Mojeek and considering I’m making AI shit at work it would be very hypocritical of me to stop using them for that.
I’m just trying to state facts, and not lump my personal opinion in here. 🙂
If you're interested in other options then @Seirdy did an excellent piece on the topic that pretty much covers what's out there for now:
https://seirdy.one/posts/2021/03/10/search-engines-with-own-indexes/
@matt @katzenberger @rysiek @MarkAssPandi
I don't expect them to be ad-free, I expect them to not use a shitty ad broker that tries to track everything I do. Ads can go directly in the HTML. Demographic ads like this are generally more relevant (despite the bullshit about all the tracking being for better targeting), don't require privacy invasions, aren't readily blockable, and the site can screen overly flashy ads. We don't have to put up with their shitty business practices.
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