30,000 Palestinians killed.
— World leaders: “Israel has a right to defend itself.”
7 international aid workers killed.
— World leaders: “ISRAEL HAS GONE TOO FAR!”
If your moral values change depending on the nationality of the victims, you do not have any moral values.
All you have is racism.
@randahl
I see your 7 international aid workers and raise you a Rachel Corrie.
They do not care.
Nothing will stop Netanyahu and the IDF from executing #GazaDelendaEst.
They are pot-committed to become a messianic pariah state.
Making an Appeal to Morality ( but think of the children ! ) doesn't go anywhere. Never has.
Knowing that war is essentially a breakdown of civilization, of law and order, of all the good things society provides, for which we ought to work night and day, with our enemies and our friends....
... tell me, why are people so prone to play victim cards? The earth is always hungry, it swallows up the dead and is never content.
@randahl The situation in #Gaza is tragic, but after #Hamas (who was elected to power) attacked #Israel 🇮🇱 on October 7th, 2023, they committed the whole area to the blowback of war.
Hamas is (to put it bluntly) a genocidal organization that needs to be removed from power.
They are comparable to the #KKK & #IslamicState in brutality.
Until the 200+ hostages are released (including 6 Americans), the war will continue & #BenjaminNetanyahu will disappointedly remain in power.
@Jennifer @randahl That is the sad reality of the situation. As far as 30,000 death toll goes, I am skeptical about that stat for two reasons:
👉🏾 It is coming from Hamas’s health ministry who does not distinguish between combatants & non-combatants
👉🏾 We will not know the real death toll due to it being urban warfare, until most of the fighting subsides (the figure could be much higher)
I wish the civilians were temporarily evacuated beforehand, but I digress.
As the Israel-Hamas war rages, international and local monitoring groups in Gaza have been unable to keep up. The only source reporting how many people have been killed in Hamas-ruled Gaza is the Ministry of Health. Over past wars, the ministry has largely maintained a track record of accuracy. Its death toll counts usually stand up to U.N. scrutiny, investigations and Israel's own tallies. But an explosion at al-Ahli Hospital in mid-October has called the health ministry's credibility into question. Confusion over that toll has raised doubts over whether ministry numbers can be trusted.
@Jennifer @randahl 🙄 Then what is your realistic solution for removing a genocidal organization who happens to double as a governmental power‽
Hamas intentionally hides amongst civilians, along with their weapon depots & terrorist bases.
War is an ugly affair, & no country would tolerate the existence of a genocidal terrorist group at the expense of their own citizens. That is a political reality.
@sb @randahl Hamas clearly stated in their 1988 charter their genocidal intentions for Israel 🇮🇱. They are savage terrorist organization who in their own words wishes death upon Israelis: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
They currently run the government of Gaza, & their attack on October 7th was an act of war. Intentially raping & burning civilians (including infants & toddlers) is evil, & no government would tolerate that attack on their citizens.
What did you think Palestinians would do after being treated like animals for 75 years? If that's not an excuse for Oct 7, Oct 7 is not an excuse for 5 months of indiscriminate slaughter, either. There is no excuse for killing thousands of civilians or starving millions, ever, period. It's wrong no matter who is doing it. Stop trying to normalize atrocities.
There are a whole lot of ways to "respond" to being attacked, that are NOT GENOCIDE.
NOT. GENOCIDE.
How fucking complicated is this?
If a couple of your neighbors busted into your house and killed one member of your family, is the appropriate response to curbstomp to death 30 random people including the killer's entire family, burn down every house on their side of the street AND the local grocery store AND water treatment plant AND hospital??
What makes your frame of mind any less bloodthirsty, dangerous, or hateful than any other murderer?
@violetmadder What you are describing is a civilian on civilian crime, in which the appropriate response is to contact the authorities (i.e. the government). When another government attacks, brutally tortures, rapes, burns & beheads civilians, what authority does the government who was attacked appeal to‽
That is the situation in Gaza right now.
Way to dodge the point entirely. Again.
Is burning down the whole neighborhood what the authorities should do in response to a murder or kidnapping, then?
Closest thing to the authorities in this situation is the UN and the ICJ, who are NOT of the opinion that this is appropriate.
@violetmadder Neither the United Nations 🇺🇳 nor the International Court of Justice have the power to enforce any of their decrees. If they did, both Russia 🇷🇺 & North Korea 🇰🇵 would have been held to account decades ago.
Again, what would be a realistic response to the attacks‽ I know most countries would have declared war & launched an invasion as there is no “international army” with enough strength to police the planet.
Is adhering to the bare minimums of international law not realistic enough for you?
@darnell @violetmadder are you too dense to understand the concept of proportionate response ?
Yes you are.
@joel_falcou @violetmadder You must not live in reality. Hamas attack on Israeli civilians was an act of war.
Israel 🇮🇱 is obligated to defend their citizens, which includes rescuing kidnapped civilians.
This has been the reality of every government since the beginning of recorded history.
You have to be naive to think stopping Hamas (a genicidal terrorist organization) can be done over tea & cookies.
I wonder if you have a similar approach to KKK & Nazis‽
@darnell @violetmadder so 200 hostages means millions of displaced refugees and death due to starvation.
You don't know how to count ?
How do you explain IDF bombing humanitarians ? Or shooting your own hostage.
Israël is commiting.genocide and should.be punished by international laws. Your stupid religious idea doent protection you form the law.
@darnell @violetmadder oh lol. Of course you advertise yourself as a libertarian.
Ok, no need to go deeper, your iq is 2 digits apparently.
@joel_falcou @violetmadder And you pretend to care when, in reality you lack an iota of knowledge of what it takes to rescue people stolen & kidnapped.
You whine about the proportional response to mass rapes & killings of civilians (that does not even make any sense!), yet do not comprehend the reality right now.
Hamas hides amongst the civilian population, & the only way to stop them with minimum civilian deaths is to send in ground troops.
@joel_falcou @violetmadder Name an international body with actual power who could enforce any decree they issued‽
Be realistic! You should read up on history on what it took to liberate enslaved Africans or free those trapped in concentration camps.
Sprinkling fairy dust did not resolve those individuals, especially considering they were in the hands of wicked individuals who do not respect anything but power.
@darnell @violetmadder La Hague is a thing.
The fact Israel sucks usa dick to get a pass should also be revoked.
Keep advocating for genocide crimes. We will remember.
@joel_falcou @violetmadder If Hague had real power than North Korea 🇰🇵 & Russia 🇷🇺 would have been stopped already.
But you are nothing more than a Hamas sympathizer, & if a similar situation was happening in Nigeria 🇳🇬, Congo 🇨🇩 or Uganda 🇺🇬 you would sympathize with Boko Haram, M23 or the Lord’s Resistance Army.
But if you want to be a coward about the issue, then do it on your own time. I am sure the Nazis & KKK would have loved you! Bye! 👋🏾
But don't you see that? It's always the same. Whenever a Zionist or their lackey appears, they start normalising the slaughter of civilians, acting as if one side should always live while also discriminating against the other.
They don't care about Palestinian lives, because for them the life privileges of Palestinians were revoked on Oct. 7 and nothing will change that.
I bet that if Hamas actually releases hostages, people like them would say "okay, no hostages it's a free game now, let's nuke it".
After all, all they care about is "eliminating Hamas" despite never specifying what Hamas is. And let's say it once and for all - everyone is Hamas for them. You, me, Palestinians. A starving child, a mother with children under rubble.
That's just pure, uncondensed fascism.
@darnell @violetmadder @randahl What they *would* do and what they *should* do are two separate things. I think they’ve done exactly what people expected, possibly a little heavier on the war crimes.
But there’s no point in trying to answer the “should” question, given the long history of mutual antipathy and aggression in the region. The Israeli gov’t should’t be committing genocidal acts. Hamas shouldn’t have attacked civilians. Israel shouldn’t have created an apartheid state. Arab TV shouldn’t broadcast hate speech towards Jews. And so on, back through the decades.
Wouldn’t it be nice if people could just get along.
@MichaelPorter @violetmadder @randahl That would be nice if everyone got along. When the conflict initially started, I was advocating the temporary removal of civilians as urban warfare would result in the deaths of thousands of civilians (as the world already witnessed in Ukraine 🇺🇦 & Ethiopia 🇪🇹).
No regional government would accept civilians from Gaza (ironically a few African countries did, but their offers were ignored).
@darnell @violetmadder @randahl It really seems that the civilians are being used as pawns. It’s against the interests of surrounding Arab countries to accept refugees, because it would make it even easier to clear the path for Israel to take over the territory.
(Disclaimer: I feel like I’m completely unqualified to carry on about mideast politics, a lot of this is just based on wild assumptions and a lifetime of watching the news)
@MichaelPorter Hamas was literally created by Israel.
@rato @violetmadder @randahl You’re abusing the word “literally.” Maybe you should rephrase.
If you mean conditions for Palestinians led to the creation of Hamas, I can’t disagree. But let’s be careful with oversimplifications. They really seem to degrade the discourse.
@MichaelPorter @violetmadder @randahl
No, they *literally* funded and supplied it to overthrow Al Fatah. And why? Because it allows them to justify policing of Palestinians.
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