Funk_FunkyMar 21, 2024
Velocirooster adminensis 

Remember in Blues Brothers when they end up at the Nazi rally and the point isn't even that Jake really hates Nazis, it's that Nazis are about the biggest losers that anyone could imagine. They are portrayed as completely pathetic dead-ender assholes.

Or in the Rocketeer when the mobsters find our the Sinclair guy is a Nazi and join forces with the FBI to stop them because Nazis are clearly the worst thing.

Or when Christopher Plummer rips the Nazi flag in two in Sound of Music.

None of these films were making bold political statements. The Nazis were the bad guys because that was something that everyone in the audience could agree one. Dunking on Nazis was a guaranteed crowd pleaser.

When the hell did we stop agreeing on something so simple and self-evident as Nazis Are Fucking Losers?

Mar 21, 2024 at 5:04amWeb
Show threadRicki Yasha TarrMar 21, 2024
@theropologist Nazis are fucking losers! Let's all agree.
Show threadNick's worldMar 21, 2024
@RickiTarr @theropologist Considering they lost WWII and are sore about it, yeah.
Show threadPhil LandmeierMar 21, 2024

@RickiTarr @theropologist Certain personality types are strongly attracted to right-wing ideas (and police work). Some "social misfits" (for lack of a better term) is one such.

But before we point fingers It's good to bear in mind that these social misfits were created by society / family / circumstances and we're not dealing with that. The young man with an eating disorder, who can't succeed with the ladies or jobs, who lives in his mother's basement and plays with guns has problems and needs that society is not addressing. He's marginalized and looks for ways to gain more personal power. Right-wing ideas are very attractive to him. Joining a right-wing group also provides camaraderie and sense of belonging to a family.

Show threadBenMar 21, 2024

@shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist With respect, trying to understand or empathise with the motivations of Nazis benefits nobody but the Nazis.

When your belief system is rooted in the idea that certain people are sub-human and that the only sensible course of action is to eradicate them, it doesn't matter what your origin story happens to be.

Far-right ideologies regard kindness and empathy as weaknesses and they'll exploit anyone who tries to negotiate with them in good faith.

Show threaddragonfrogMar 21, 2024

@igneus @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist I didn't at all read that as trying to "negotiate in good faith" with Nazis. I read it as trying to understand why they're able to recruit people, in order to remove those circumstances.

There's refusing to empathize with Nazis because their beliefs are abhorrent, and then there's refusing to understand how they're outplaying you because their beliefs are abhorrent.

Show threadAaronMar 21, 2024
@dragonfrog @igneus @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist Right, I don't want to sympathize with any Nazis, because they're the ones in the wrong, period. But that doesn't mean disregard opportunities to prevent people from becoming Nazis in the first place. Maybe with a little nudge, those folks will take a different path *before* they become the thing we rightly despise. People aren't born with hate in their hearts. There is a point where they step over that line, and there is a time before that.
Show threadBlahsterMar 21, 2024
@igneus @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist but noone is born a Nazi - what he said is that there is a good chance to catch people before they get hooked on Nazi-beliefs and that it is our responsibility as a society to address the needs of those people.
Show threadBenMar 21, 2024
@Blahster @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist I agree. No-one is born a Nazi per se. However, the idea of "responsibility as a society" implies a centre of mass called "society" which has the agency to prevent Nazis from gaining power. I personally don't believe this is true. Under capitalism, the levers of power are in the hands of an increasingly small in-group which fosters the material conditions from which extremism can grow. The only power most of us have now is to fight the effects.
Show threadVon XylofonMar 29, 2024
@igneus @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist I'd argue it's good to know the motivations because I don't think nazism is the cause, I think it's the symptom, and knowing the motivations may help us find the cause and fix that.
Show threadPhil LandmeierMar 31, 2024
@vonxylofon @igneus @RickiTarr @theropologist I agree that it's a symptom of a deeper problem.
Show threadViolet MadderMay 5, 2024

@igneus @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist

It's useful though to understand what is done to a child that may have otherwise turned out decent and kind, to twist them onto that path-- so we can watch out for it and get better at catching and preventing it.

Show threadDThorisMar 21, 2024
@shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist
You can't push on a rope. People need to reach out for help and do the hard work in order to improve in addition to having the infrastructure in place to help them.
Show threadBlahsterMar 21, 2024
@DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist but without an existing infrastructure you can't even see if anyone is reaching out. Maybe most of them do - but who cares atm?
Show threadRicki Yasha TarrMar 21, 2024
@shuttersparks @theropologist I do understand what you're saying, but lots of people have issues, and lots of people don't decide they are superior to other people and certain people need to be put in camps. That's why I think that as a culture Nazism should be treated with absolute scorn and derision. I do agree we should treat people with compassion and try to understand where they are coming from, but some things we should make look as unattractive as possible. There is also a certain level of personal responsibility that people should take, if you treat women like objects, you need to understand that you probably won't get women, if you never make an effort to improve yourself, you can't just say you're being marginalized.
Show threadBlahsterMar 21, 2024
@RickiTarr @shuttersparks @theropologist he is not speaking about Nazis, he is speaking about people getting on the path to become one - they are the ones who you can actually help... or could, if anyone would care.
Show threadPhil LandmeierMar 22, 2024

@RickiTarr @theropologist Lots of good points raised above. I certainly don't have the answers.

It just seems to me that something has failed if a person feels that their life is so shitty that joining Nazis would be an improvement.

An unrelated point is that modern tech has made this too easy. If, say, 40 years ago I decided I wanted to hang out with Nazis, I would have had to expend considerable time and effort locating them, contacting them, and then being gradually accepted by them. It would have required a certain amount of extroversion, time, and effort.

Today, it's completely different. If I wanted to do that today I'm sure that here on Mastodon, or MeWe, Twitter, whatever, with a little typing and a few clicks, in under 30 seconds I can be conversing with Nazis, or doctors, nurses, mathematicians. It's up to me, of course. But this is a new problem that didn't exist before.

Show threadKickstinkMar 25, 2024
@shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist Nope. Disenfranchised people get sucked into far-right talking points, needing to be an edgelord for all those reasons, sure. But that’s only the start of the story. If they continue to be in that space and fail to reject the hatred/discrimination, they are responsible for what they’re doing or turning a blind eye to. People can and should “come back from the dark side” and that door should be open, but there’s a point where no sad backstory justifies it.
Show threadKickstinkMar 25, 2024
@shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist actually I’ve probably overreacted a bit to the toot I was replying to, it just seemed to go a bit too far in sympathising. The far-right is predatory and needs a supply of disenfranchised young men for recruits, so we should absolutely fix that, I just think understanding the reasons should never mean giving an inch towards it ever being an acceptable thing to choose.
Show threadPhil LandmeierMar 26, 2024

@kickstink @RickiTarr @theropologist I don't think anyone said it was an acceptable thing to choose, or even implied it. It's not acceptable. That there are people who find it preferable to where they are is a problem we must look at.

Right-wing media constantly cultivates anger and dissatisfaction, blaming all troubles on "liberals". Nazis will find it far harder to recruit people who are basically happy. Naziism thrives on unhappiness, as illustrated by what happened in Germany.

Show threadAmpeliosApr 29, 2024

@shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist Bob Altemeyer, The Authoritarians.

The book is free, I recommend it every time this comes up.

A certain percentage of the population just want to be told it will be okay if they do X, and they don't care how hideous an act X may be.

https://theauthoritarians.org/

The Authoritarians

Show threadEasydorMar 21, 2024
@RickiTarr
They are absoutely.
And on 2nd thought they want to gain power by making others the losers but not out of efford or development but by degrading.
Can't imagine any lower loserdom.
@theropologist
Show threadMonica RooneyMar 21, 2024
@RickiTarr @theropologist remember when people got angry that Castle Wolfenstein 2 was about killing Nazis? (In 2014!) https://www.pcgamesn.com/wolfenstein-youngblood/problematic-nazis
Wolfenstein developers are “incredibly disappointed” that fighting Nazis is now “problematic”

MachineGames set out to make "interesting stories" with The New Order.

PCGamesN
Show threadRicki Yasha TarrMar 21, 2024
@monicarooney @theropologist WTF
Show threaddragonfrogMar 21, 2024
@monicarooney @RickiTarr @theropologist wut? Did they not play Wolfenstein 1?
Show threadzendao42Mar 26, 2024
@RickiTarr @theropologist
Show threadmav Mar 21, 2024
@theropologist
It's complicated but, essentially, 2016
Show threadViolet MadderMar 21, 2024

@mav @theropologist

Right around the moment when people started expecting liberal parties to actually DO things.

Show threadMuMar 21, 2024
@theropologist it was everywhere!
Show threadVelocirooster adminensis Mar 21, 2024
@mu Ha yes, that's almost exactly Paul Sorvino's reaction in Rocketeer.
Show threadLuka RubinjoniMar 21, 2024
@mu @theropologist Red Skull got Milkshake Ducked by Joker, Elon Musk shitting bricks to remove it from Twitter.
Show threadPicks the EvangelistMar 21, 2024
@theropologist one of my favorite parts of the Rocketeer is when Paul Sorvino and the FBI guy are Tommy gunning the Nazis, they notice each other, pause a moment, then go back to Tommy gunning Nazis
Show threadCourt Cantrell does not complyMar 21, 2024
@theropologist I believe we should model our behavior after Indiana Jones.
Show threadChris DudleyMar 21, 2024
@courtcan @theropologist Yup. He hates snakes and nazis.
Show threadChris BohnMay 6, 2024
@ccdudley85 @courtcan @theropologist ...and there aren't any snakes on this truck.
Show threadRo Laren RED57🥄💩🦨🍈🍊🤡May 6, 2024

@DocBohn @ccdudley85 @courtcan @theropologist

And about to be one motherf’in Nazi less on this tank.

Show threadOggieMar 21, 2024
@theropologist Top Secret has come up in my mind enough times that I think I am due for a rewatch!
Show threadKaren SimmonsMar 21, 2024
@theropologist I was just thinking about The Rocketeer! One of my fave underrated hidden gems as well as a nice homage to those old-Hollywood serial adventures! And Timothy did make a great evil Errol Flynn-ish secret-Nazi/film star! (& I also agree with you about the Nazis in general, too!👍)
Show threadeestileib (she/hers)Mar 21, 2024

@ksimmons @theropologist

And Jennifer Connolly, 😳

Show threadClare Harris 🍁Mar 21, 2024

@theropologist

One of the best summaries I’ve read of instances that demonstrate what losers Nazis are. You have my utmost admiration! 👊🏼

#nofascism
#nomorenazis
#nonazis

Show threadClare Harris 🍁May 6, 2024
@theropologist
Show threadRiaResistsMar 21, 2024
@theropologist No matter what happens Nazis are always losers.
Show threadNicky🦨✌️Mar 21, 2024

@theropologist when people realized that they were pathetic and weak losers who couldn’t do the right thing to save their lives. Global warming? I need my car. Obesity/healthcare? I need that supersized NOW. We need to address failing infrastructure and schools? Let’s privatize.

So why not side with nazis? They have nothing but their own illusions. #thetruthhurts

Show threadbaconandcoconutMar 21, 2024
@skoombidoombis @theropologist Maybe I'm not understanding your comment, but there's literally no reason to suggest a correlation between Nazism and obesity.
Show threadNicky🦨✌️Mar 21, 2024
@baconandcoconut @skoombidoombis @theropologist maybe you should take the whole statement on context and not cherry-pick what offends you. Are you sure you’re genX? The statement was about weakness in general—yes some people have medical weight issues but most people over-consume.
Show threadNicky🦨✌️Mar 21, 2024
@baconandcoconut @skoombidoombis @theropologist don’t cherry pick one point of my comment and then you wouldn’t have any confusion.
Show threadLexiGirlMar 21, 2024
@theropologist Nick Fuentes is a loser of the highest degree who still lives at home and broadcasts from a set he rigged up in Mommy’s basement.
Show threadJargogglesMar 21, 2024

@theropologist
This is definitely the best way to portray Nazis in media - as the dipshit losers they are.

Stuff like American History X, while ultimately panning Neo-Nazism had media illiterate people taking the completely wrong message with it. Making Nazis look like badasses is just going to endear the ideology to fragile, insecure dorks who want to cling to anything that feeds into a masculine power fantasy.

The Producers did a fantastic job of this and Jojo Rabbit fucking *nailed* it.

Show threadTitia SchuurmanMar 21, 2024
@theropologist
There should be a movie about that time when Meyer Lansky's Jewish mob was beating up Nazis with baseball bats in NYC and elsewhere in the US. A true story, which I love reading again and again, because it's so darn satisfying.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/gangsters-vs-nazis
Gangsters vs. Nazis: How the Jewish Mob fought American admirers of the Third Reich

Emboldened by Hitler’s rise to power in Germany in 1933, and fueled by the Great Depression, anti-Semitism increased throughout the United States, and over 100 anti-Semitic organizations sprung up across the country. They had names like the Friends of the New Germany (Nazi Bund), the Silver Shirts, Defenders of the Christian Faith, the Christian Front, …

Tablet Magazine
Show threadDario PanicoMar 21, 2024
@theropologist Another factor that comes to my mind is the push to feel "different" from the mainstream culture to find validation in being nonconformist. What's than more attractive then rooting for the universally despised bad guys? That combined with right wing groups strongly defined identity that can give a sense of belonging to those who conform. I guess this mix can be quite attracting for marginalized people
Show threadDoug GrinbergsMar 21, 2024
@theropologist
Blues Brothers movie Nazi dive scene https://youtu.be/ZTT1qUswYL0
The Blues Brothers (1980) - Nazis Take a Dive Scene (3/9) | Movieclips

YouTube
Show threadWestern InfidelsMar 21, 2024

@ShutterbugDoug @theropologist I remember absolutely loving this scene as a kid. As an adolescent, anyway.

Today I have to think the 2017 Charlottesville crowd-ramming attack -- that left one person dead and 30+ others maimed -- had to be inspired by this scene, right? The perp even used the same make of car.

Show threadarceuthobiumMar 21, 2024
@ShutterbugDoug @theropologist love that the Nazi mobile is a station wagon painted like Dukes of Hazzard.