Ryan SingelMar 19, 2024

I still think the most under-reported, most holy shit tech story of the last 5+ years is how good e-bikes have gotten and how much more affordable a decent e-bike has become.

E-cars and trucks are a nice change but mostly meh. E-bikes, tho? They are magic.

They deserve subsidies and way more press attention.

Show threadjoriki Mar 19, 2024

@ryansingel

yes, but the lack of parts standards is pretty awful right now

good luck finding parts when something wears out in 5-10 years

https://youtu.be/PN505EbwWT0?si=x8r8wSU8nLKMJbDl

We Have A Huge Problem With Ebikes....

YouTube
Show threadszakibMar 19, 2024
@joriki @ryansingel I had an email exchange with Larry vs. Harry (Bullitt) about why they use Shimano motors and offer no Bosch ones. Turns out the main reason is that Shimano is committed to keeping the mount points constant, but Bosch mount points have sometimes changed between motor generations, so newer motors cannot always be mounted into earlier frames.
Show threadBenjamin FryMar 20, 2024
@szakib @joriki @ryansingel I had no idea about this, thanks for sharing that detail!
Show threadMarc Hedlund
@bluejekyll @szakib @joriki @ryansingel I didn’t know that, either (and I’m on my second Bullitt). I think the Shimano motors are better anyway. 😄
Mar 20, 2024 at 1:04amWeb
Show threadIan McKellarMar 20, 2024

@marcprecipice @bluejekyll @szakib @joriki @ryansingel

I hope / assume all of this will become a commodity with imperfect but widely adopted standards. I'd love to see a proliferation of ebike builders like desktop PCs in the 90s. A few big builders but all kinds of local businesses building custom rigs for people. I want people to be able to upgrade and replace parts keeping the parts that are still fine.

Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 20, 2024
@ian @marcprecipice @bluejekyll @szakib @joriki @ryansingel We need a major brand to play IBM, so everyone else can play the "100% X compatible" card and we get a proper standard out of it!
Show threadBenjamin FryMar 20, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @ian @marcprecipice @bluejekyll @szakib @joriki @ryansingel I feel like in the bike world that brand is basically Shimano, and Bosch as the early leader maybe didn’t get the memo.
Show threaddr2chaseMar 20, 2024

@bluejekyll @AGTMADCAT @ian @marcprecipice @szakib @joriki @ryansingel This feels like diversity/culture fail 101. Bosch historically did not do bikes, probably does not even know that the parts tend interchangeable (can swap in modern pedals, seat, stem, hubs, wheels, saddle, on a bike made in the 1940s), so why would they bother making replacement and upgrade a priority?

Unlike cars, it's pretty easy to keep a bicycle on the road indefinitely.

Show threadAgent SnarkMar 20, 2024

@dr2chase

I worked for Rohloff ( https://rohloff.de ) until the end of Dec23. Believe me, the people at Bosch know. Because we told them more than once.

Willkommen - Rohloff AG

Show threaddr2chaseMar 20, 2024
@AgentSnark you told them, doesn't mean they understood. And awesome former job, at least from the outside, I hope it was as good on the inside. I own one of those hubs, very happy about the splined sprocklet carrier upgrade, too.
Show threadSarah E BourneMar 20, 2024
@bluejekyll @AGTMADCAT @ian @marcprecipice @szakib @joriki @ryansingel Oh, so this is more like VHS and Betamax? (Except that Betamax was the superior technology.)
Show threadIan McKellarMar 21, 2024
@sbourne @bluejekyll @AGTMADCAT @marcprecipice @szakib @joriki @ryansingel
Any time something is "superior technology" I read that as "poor product/market fit".
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 21, 2024
@ian @sbourne @bluejekyll @marcprecipice @szakib @joriki @ryansingel Beta found its niche and remained in operation until very recently - it really was better from a quality point of view, it just couldn't record a whole 4 hour NFL game, which is what people wanted at home.
Show threadszakibMar 20, 2024
@marcprecipice @bluejekyll @joriki @ryansingel I originally asked this question because my bike mechanic friend's informal stats say that the Bosch motors have better build quality and they are more reliable.
But even with more frequent repairs, I expect the Shimanos to be more cost-efficient in terms of total cost of ownership over the years. (Does anyone have data on this?)
What is it that you like more about the Shimanos?
Show threadMarc HedlundMar 20, 2024
@szakib @bluejekyll @joriki @ryansingel I’m not sure I have a clear explanation beyond “the ride.” I constantly feel like I’m fighting the Bosch motors while the Shimano seems more responsive. Torque sensor, maybe?
Show threadjohneMar 20, 2024
@szakib @marcprecipice @bluejekyll @joriki @ryansingel One big problem I have with the Bosch motor in my Tern is only dealers have access to the software for maintenance. Right to repair legislation may change that.
Show threadszakibMar 20, 2024
@johne @marcprecipice @bluejekyll @joriki @ryansingel what does Shimano let you do/access as a consumer?