When privileged folks tell me at my talks “I don’t care about my privacy / I have nothing to hide / Give me one example of the ramifications of surveillance capitalism / etc.”, I tell them “you will care when your health insurance premiums go up because your Smart Fridge tells the insurance companies what you’re eating/drinking.” This is basically the same thing. Sad that it takes things hitting their own wallets for privileged folks to pay attention.

🤷‍♂️ https://social.lansky.name/@hn50/112077137922790367

Hacker News 50 (@[email protected])

Automakers Are Sharing Consumers' Driving Behavior with Insurance Companies Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976

Mastodon

@aral

When the recognition system in the vending machine sees your Gucci belt and doubles all its prices as you approach it.

@aral too late... my supermarket has been selling this information for the last 2 decades... 🙄
@aral i agree. but counterpoint: some of these drivers could use the extra premium to knock their recklessness down a peg. but of course the real solution is plentiful public transit and streets with extreme traffic calming measures, not more surveillance/punishment capitalism that blames people for using roads how they were designed (as drag race strips).
@aral Some of those folks may even yell "Hey it won't happen!" or even "I know how this world works more than you! It can never happen!"
@aral Guess why almost all old cars are “collectable” now. Yeah, everyone really has nostalgia for 1980s Corollas.

@metaning @aral Also see farmers buying old Nissan Hardbodies or Ford Bantams because modern trucks are massive, overdesigned with electronics (making them harder to fix/maintain without specialized tools), actually have smaller beds with less loading space, and are also absolute gas guzzlers.

The people want work horses, not luxury planet killing child flatteners.

@aral ask them to give you access to their credit card including all details, their ssn, their ID, access to a camera system monitoring every spot of their house 24/7 with no way to revoke access

@aral

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

-- Edward Snowden

@aral Dude! There was a speculative documentary in 2007 that argued that EXACT point. (Albeit with a urine test)

It’s on YouTube for those interested: https://youtu.be/5-px4MAKREs?si=_fdvFEKoUaTj3KXs

2057 The Body part 1

YouTube

@aral I sometimes think about what we can't talk about on social media. How much of our social paralysis comes from our physical isolation and the difficulty of making plans together?

Even when we've got the secure tools, it's a constraint on the bandwidth.

The real political discussions happened at the bar or the restaurant after the formal meeting. And that becomes rarer and rarer.

Students rush from class to work, with no time to talk.

@aral I just ask them, "Can I watch next time you're having sex/taking a crap/typing in your bank PIN?" Watch the enthusiasm evaporate.
@aral I kept that saying for years now. Got tired.
@aral Anyone who says this to me, I offer to put the entire contents of their phone online immediately for free.
Nobody has taken me up on this offer...
@aral I don't hate the car insurance bit as it has some significant potential for public safety and nothing in the way of public harm.
I'm open to learning of how I'm looking at it wrong though if anyone wishes to educate me.

@aral

They are likely white straight men who wouldn't be targeted if they were to engage in civil protests.

@aral Try asking them if they masturbate.

@aral Also the aspect of - is the data they're collecting even accurate? Can you correct it? If you even know who has it? and who has access to it - random IT dude? How long do they keep it? All of that. So many people don't think about those things.

How will this incorrect information that's available about you impact your credit rating? Security checks when you apply for a job? Your medical record?

@aral @matt @hn50 I don’t think this could happen in EU without getting the company crushed by government lawsuits.
@aral I wouldn’t let my Bff pair her iPhone with her new car for just this reason.

@aral Asking people for their phone password & grabbing your laptop + some cables...

Them: "What are you going to do with my phone?"

Me: "I thought you said you had nothing to hide. I'm just going to download all your photos and check your bank account and credit card purchases. I'll make sure to download all your eMails too, but I'll read those later."

And all of a sudden, privacy is important to them.

Then I tell them that Google & FB does this to them every minute of every day.

🤯

@aral

"I need privacy, not because my actions are questionable, but because your judgement and intentions are"

@aral https://mastodon.cloud/@BrianJopek@mastodon.world/112040739507230582

^ It shouldn't, but it does. The Jungle (1906) is a heart-rending tale of the evils capitalism inflicts on people, but it's remembered for "Oh God, that's what I'm eating?". Or as Upton Sinclair put it, he was aiming at America's heart but he hit it in the stomach.

Brian Jopek (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image It really shouldn’t. #DeepThoughts

Mastodon
@aral Because private insights you share today about yourself, your friends, and the circles you walk in, may tomorrow suddenly, at the switch of overlords, become unacceptable and punishable, therefore placing yourself or your associates in harm's way.
@aral Individual policies in California have community rating. It was the main feature of the ACA.
@aral in the context of auto insurance, I have no problem whatsoever with programmatic enforcement of safe driving. Come spend a week watching how people drive in this city and you'll reach the same conclusion.
@wooliex @aral in principle, I agree on programmatic enforcement, but I am much more comfortable with enforcement coming from publicly accountable agencies with things like public traffic cameras than with sharing private driving data with for-profit companies. The risk of scope creep, algorithmic bias, and unaccountable abuse is too high without strong checks in place.
Anyone who says that they have nothing to hide hasn't thought about it hard enough.

I'm sure most of them have at least one detail about their lives that they would like to keep from at least one other person in their lives. Maybe they would like to prefer to keep their porn searches out of their mother's mailbox, or maybe there's a private conversation between two people that would really make their lives difficult if it got out. Not to mention, standards change -- you're telling me that 20 years ago you never said anything, not one thing that could be taken is wrong now, that you've never had one stupid idea in your head that you've put pen to paper it about?

I mean it's possible, but I don't really believe it. The only person who could possibly be so perfect is a person who's never done anything.
@aral Guilty as charged! I used to say this all the time! Let’s just say I woke up.

@aral Surveillance capitalism has two aims:

- make money off data it has on you

OR if they can't make money off your data (or it isn't enough)

- deny anything that *spends money on you*

@aral when they say "I have nothing to hide," I like to say - OK great, then could I please have your credit card info, social security number, home address, and recent health information about you and your partner? (Oh, does that seem creepy? Then would you be opposed to a two-trillion-dollar company being this creepy and more? And NOW we can start having a conversation...)
@aral Or they will care when the algorithm that rewards/punishes people GETS IT WRONG for them.
@aral The really privileged don't care because they can afford it. Influencers get paid not to care. The majority of the remainder are so caught up trying to emulate the privileged influencers and using conspicuous consumption to signal social status that they'll convince themselves they don't care rather than not have the new shiny new toy that all their friends are about to have.
@aral “I don’t care about privacy”
Do you have curtains on your windows?