Again, in underwriting they look at the properties and make a decision on their own. And what was the risk to New Yorkers? Who exactly was defrauded by trump?

Is the only thing that was wrong the square footage on an apartment?

The square footage was not the only thing that was wrong, you can read the court docs for the whole list.

The entire basis of finance is that lenders get paid more when applicants have more risk. If you have a low credit score, lenders get paid more even if you make all your payments on time. But Trump lied, so that he wouldn’t have to pay what they would have charged him if they knew the truth.

It really sounds like you are admitting to lying on credit card and loan applications in order to rip off lenders.

Firstly, you dont understand how they underwriting process works, if you are actually intersted I can explain it. Secondly, you have not been able to tell me directly who was harmed and how. In any other fine like this that I am aware of, you could directly point to what they did and who was harmed (no one was harmed). Do you see the problem when the fine is half a billion and its missing those basic details?

I don’t think you understand how the law works. If you break the law, you face the consequences. The penalty is meant to deter you from breaking the law again, it is not necessarily based on “who was directly harmed”.

There are thousands of people in jail right now who did not directly harm anyone. Do you see the problem when Trump thinks that the law should not apply to him?

Again, you literally dont know what he even did, and what he did wasnt a crime.

Can you name one other judgement in the hundreds of millions where there was no direct victim?

I didn’t say he committed a crime, I said he broke the law. And I told you what he did: he lied on loan documents.

Clearly you think lying should not be punished, but the law doesn’t see things that way. Something to consider on your next loan application.

He didnt commit a crime or break the law. The problem is that you dont know about underwriting, and you wont ask about it because it blows up your case.

Good point on JP morgan, now lets take a look at the penalty. Trumps penalty was nearly over 1/2 of his networth or so (I dont know what it really is), and JP morgan was 1/2500th of their market cap. You see the difference?

Underwriting has nothing to with the fact that it’s illegal to lie on a loan document.

You are trying to make this about “direct harm”, which means you don’t understand how the law works. Just as there are “victimless crimes”, one can violate the law without directly harming someone. I gave you many examples, Trump is just one of them.

Finally, penalties partly depend on your pattern of conduct. If a judge thinks you are likely to break the same law again, the penalty will be greater in order to deter you. JPMorgan was wise enough to admit wrongdoing and promise never to do it again. Trump, at sentencing, still thought everything he did was 100% cool and legal. Trump brought that huge fine upon himself.

On each page it said that it was up to the lender to verify the information, you can claim its lying, but you would need to be very specific. I just mention direct harm because that is important to how much someone is penalized. And obviously the point of trumps penalty was not to stop him from breaking the law in the future… he is gonna die in the near future and is focused on politics.

Literally everything you have to say falls apart under basic scrutiny. You are just a partisan person that doesnt want to admit.

He specifically lied when he claimed an 11K square foot apartment had an area of 30K square feet.

You cannot escape responsibility for obeying the law by acknowledging that you might not be obeying the law. Do you seriously think that you can fill out a false tax return and get away with it if you write “This might not be my actual income, it’s up to the IRS to verify”. Judge Engoron basically laughed that argument out of court.

Trump will almost certainly apply for more loans before he dies. After this judgment, hopefully he will fill out those applications truthfully.

Thank you for finally getting specific. The apartment probably included unfinished garage space, but why do you think that would change the valuation much? Why didnt the loan company verify the information which is literally part of their due diligence?

Your whole case behind giving a fine of 400 million or so is based on a difference of about a million in appraised value change, which apparently the bank didnt even care about.

Are you suggesting that lying on a document is legal if others can figure out the truth? That’s not how the law works, at all.

Try reporting an income of $0 on your taxes this year. An obvious lie, and the IRS probably already knows your income. Nevertheless, you will face consequences.

If you claim a thing that is defensible and say that its up to the other person to verify it, then its just part of how things work. The real question is why do you care what agreement two parties come to and are happy about the outcome?

The IRS is different than a bank, and income is different than appraised value.

Claiming an 11K sqft apartment as 30K sqft is not defensible.

And no, that’s not “just how things work”. You imagine that we live in some libertarian dystopia, but we don’t. There are laws that prohibit lying in many circumstances, and you can’t disclaim your responsibility to tell the truth.

If you sell bottles labeled “Aspirin” that contain no aspirin, you will face severe consequences. Even if nobody buys your bottles and nobody is harmed. Even if you write “User is responsible for verifying whether this bottle contains aspirin”.

Because laws specifically outlaw lying on medication bottles, just as laws specifically outlaw lying on loan documents.

The real question is why do you care what agreement two parties come to and are happy about the outcome?

I care about rule of law, which means that people face the consequences for breaking laws. It makes no difference whether people are happy.

When someone buys meth from a dealer, those two parties are also happy about the outcome of the agreement. I don’t care.

You dont care about actual rule of law, you care about partisan rule of law. You dont like trump, so you are happy he is being attacked, but dont understand how it can backfire. You are in the “fucking around” stage, and if you guys get what you want we will go to the “finding out” part.

Nonsense. After Rod Blagojevich was caught trying to sell a Senate seat, I was glad to see him go to jail. And he is a Democrat.

I suppose you wonder why he was even arrested, after all when politicians are paid off both parties are happy with the outcome.

And for the last time, I am not afraid of Trump’s threats.

Oh wow, you are happy a democrat went to prison… I am also not afraid of trumps threats, I am afraid what happens if trump loses and the maga people get mad because the election was actually blatently tampered with this time.

I am happy when crooked politicians go to prison, regardless of their party. And Trump is as crooked as any.

I am not afraid of maga people who are angry that the crook they worship was found guilty.

I am not afraid of maga people who are angry that the crook they worship was found guilty.

Uh, you should be, it could be the end of the country.

Do you think the jan 6th rioters should be getting years in prison?

Angry maga people aren’t going to be the end of this country, that’s just fear mongering.

Yes, Jan 6 rioters should face the consequences of breaking the law. Depending on the charges and pleas of each individual, that may or may not include prison.

I dont think you understand what could happen, what happens if tens of millions of people say the federal government is no longer legitamate, and they refuse to follow its rules and laws?

About jan 6th people, did they deserve years in prison for going into a building and not doing any violent acts?

I’m still not afraid of maga people.

The Jan 6 deserve prison if that’s the federal sentencing guidelines for their crimes. Not everyone in prison is there for violent crime.

I feel like you are not aware of how long of sentences people are getting for tresspassing. For example the shaman I think got 42 months for entering a building and acting like an idiot.

He pled guilty to obstruction of a federal proceeding, under 18 USC 1512.

Max sentence is 20 years. So 41 months seems about right.

He pled guilty because he was going to get stream rolled. So you think its fair to get 41 months in prison for trespassing?

Trespassing is when you break into an empty federal building. What he did went way beyond trespassing. Like I said, the charge was obstruction of a federal proceeding.

When government officials can’t do their job because of you, things get very serious very fast and feds don’t play around. Just ask Martha Stewart, formerly inmate #55170-054.

The obstructing federal proceedings is just a bullshit charge they use to make it sound worse. My biggest issue on these riot charges is how you guys yell about how bad it was but then ignore the george floyd riots. You guys only care about jan 6th because it is an example of why you dont mess with the federal governemnt in dc.

Plenty of people went to jail after the George Floyd riots.

How many people went to prison for George floyd riots vs jan 6th? For jan 6ht I think its 500 or so have gotten prison sentences, and George floyd they didnt do much convictions. Shouldnt they be targeting a lot more for the group that did an actual insurrection in CHAZ?

I have no idea how many went to prison.

If you think the feds should have targeted CHAZ a lot more, blame the idiot who was in charge of the feds at the time.

From what I can find, 467 or so jan 6th people got prison time and the only number I can find is 70 george floyd rioters have gotten prison time. Do you get how uneven that is and those numbers should be flipped if not more?

If you think more people should be in prison after the George Floyd riots, then name the people who should be in prison but aren’t.

Let me get this straight, there were something like 25 people killed and billions of dollars in damages over months, and you think there should be 4x more people in prison from jan 6th?

The problem is they didnt prosecute people or actually do any real investigations.

Most of those 25 were shot by LEOs. Are you saying LEOs should be in prison?

You haven’t named anyone who you think escaped justice, and there’s a reason. It’s hard to identify the violent George Floyd rioters.

Here’s a hint to future rioters: if you don’t want to go to prison, then don’t riot inside a building that has among the heaviest surveillance in America.

I dont think that is right, how many were killed by police.

You haven’t named anyone who you think escaped justice, and there’s a reason.

Raz Simone. Literally he is on video handing out gun(s) to protect the area he was the loose leader of. The area they had overthrown the police and government.

I dont think you actually know what you are talking about. In Oregon, the state police stopped helping out portland because they were not prosecuting people. But I guess it has to do with surveillance.

Handing someone a gun is not a crime.

Oh gotcha, you are just confirmation bias guy. Peace

That’s rich, coming from the guy whose gut instinct tells him the black people in prison should outnumber the Trump supporters