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nixCraft 🐧If anyone, especially the Nvidia CEO, tells you not to teach your kids maths, science, coding, art, or personal finance. Ignore him and do the opposite of what he is saying. Teach your kids the skills they need to thrive. Embrace education for all kids. By encouraging critical thinking and a love of learning, you give your kids powerful tools to shape their futures, which also helps build strong nations.
Rob@nixCraft 💯 this!!!
Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸@nixCraft
????????? Fill me in please?
????????? Fill me in please?
GLC
Chirayu 
@nixCraft of course they would discourage...
"No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them" - Assata Shakur
Eugenia L@nixCraft He didn't say to not teach kids math or science. He specifically said to not teach kids coding. I'm an ex-programmer myself, and I agree with him in this day and age.
"Teach your kids the skills they need to thrive."
Exactly. And that can't be done with coding in the age of AI. Not anymore. 20 years ago, yes, I'd say go for it. But not today.
Today, you need to pick careers that AI won't touch for another 20 years. After that time, all bets are off anyway, as robotics is coming too.
jsr_ffd2@eugenialoli @nixCraft
Up to now I've only been able to let AI create small snips of usable programming code
Things like Hello world in m68 k assembly and things of that Nature
Up to now I've only been able to let AI create small snips of usable programming code
Things like Hello world in m68 k assembly and things of that Nature
Tobias Denkinger@eugenialoli
The chief problem with code is not that it takes long to write, but that its quality is bad (and we therefore have to debug a lot). I can see how an LLM may be writing code faster. I don't see how an LLM can write better code. After all, the LLM learned to write code from examples of human code and has, in contrast to a human, no way of reflecting on what it has learned.
@nixCraft
The chief problem with code is not that it takes long to write, but that its quality is bad (and we therefore have to debug a lot). I can see how an LLM may be writing code faster. I don't see how an LLM can write better code. After all, the LLM learned to write code from examples of human code and has, in contrast to a human, no way of reflecting on what it has learned.
@nixCraft
@eugenialoli
I believe we are close to what neural networks can do. We have been tinkering with them for the last 50+ years. In their current state they are not fit to replace a programmer. They probably never will be.
While there is a lot of other machine learning going on, this usually requires domain specific modelling. Such a model will be able to replace a programmer only after we have figured out how programming should actually be done.
@nixCraft
derptron@denki @nixCraft Only a few software houses will care about "better" code, most would care about "faster-written" code. That way, they can reduce costs. This alone, makes the chance of someone young getting employed very slim, making the advice of "don't become a coder in the age of AI", a sound advice. You can still learn to code for fun, sure. But not to make a good buck.
Ariaflame@eugenialoli @denki @nixCraft So it can fail faster. You do however need to know the basics of code to become a debugger, and those I suspect will be in demand.
@ariaflame @denki @nixCraft Look at the state of modern furniture, household devices, clothes. Their quality is a far cry from the stuff you could buy in the 1970s. And yet, no one cares, everything is replaceable now, a commodity. Apart from some important code for banks/taxes/etc which will employ humans, all the other "apps" would be low quality AI code. They will fail often, and no one will care. People will move on.
@ariaflame @denki @nixCraft It's not cynicism, it's objectivity. I'm old enough to remember the washing machine of my ex-mother in law, that she bought in Germany in 1963, and she still had it working until the mid-2000s. That's durability that is currently not built in to ANYTHING these days. Why would consumer apps be any different? Capitalism always strives to commodify everything, so it creates sizable markets with low entry point. That's how it "grows". It's not good, but it's what it is.
phi1997@phi1997 @ariaflame Maybe you're right. Diogenes has always been my favorite philosopher. He told it like he saw it.
@eugenialoli @phi1997 Expecting the worst probably means you will get it.
@eugenialoli @denki @nixCraft Besides, learning coding isn't just about being a coder. It's about learning to problem solve, to break down a problem into pieces so small even a computer can understand them. At which point hopefully you do to.
@ariaflame @denki @nixCraft Yes, as I wrote in the thread, learning to code for fun, is fine. But not to create a career that would give you the money you could make if you were born 20 years earlier. These days are gone, forever. The programmer as a sure fire professional with lots, LOTS of money per year, is gone.
@eugenialoli @denki @nixCraft Most of the tools I'm using these days in my work didn't exist until I was in postgraduate study. I'm not sure that all programmers made lots of money anyway. People will adapt.
@ariaflame @denki @nixCraft You can only adapt around tools that allow you to manipulate the tool in different directions. That's how you "adapt". AI does not allow you to do that. I estimate that eventually, within the next 30-40 years, AI will be having 85% of all jobs. Only a 15% of the population, the "overseeers", will have an actual job.
Krupo@ariaflame @eugenialoli @denki @nixCraft yep I still see it all as a glorified set of IF statements.
@eugenialoli
Writing worse code faster is cheaper only in the short term. It produces technical debt that will have to be paid later. Many managers don't care about that because the problem is not big enough with human programmers that care about their craft. The problem will, however, become big enough to care once AI produces enough code.
@nixCraft
Writing worse code faster is cheaper only in the short term. It produces technical debt that will have to be paid later. Many managers don't care about that because the problem is not big enough with human programmers that care about their craft. The problem will, however, become big enough to care once AI produces enough code.
@nixCraft
Fish Id Wardrobe ⁂@eugenialoli @denki @nixCraft That ... wouldn't help. A bug in *any* of the code can be disastrous. It *all* has to be free of (serious) bugs.
Andreas Rilinger@eugenialoli @denki @nixCraft I predict that AI with the help of a mediocre programmer but good project planner will soon be better at coding than 99 % of coders without AI. AI and a Human is the key. But this human does not need to be the perfect programmer.
@monkeyofhope
I agree. An AI assistant could be very helpful. It can detect things like "You are rewriting code that may already be present in library X." or "You are writing repetitive code. Consider using generics or generating the code." or even "The way you are using pointers here may be dangerous for the user of the function. Consider managing the pointer in the library."
@eugenialoli @nixCraft
I agree. An AI assistant could be very helpful. It can detect things like "You are rewriting code that may already be present in library X." or "You are writing repetitive code. Consider using generics or generating the code." or even "The way you are using pointers here may be dangerous for the user of the function. Consider managing the pointer in the library."
@eugenialoli @nixCraft
@eugenialoli @denki @nixCraft counterpoint: any system with garbage code like that will be failed by IT auditors and people trying to push such "AI solutions" for anything more important than a window display unit will get pilloried for doing so.
@eugenialoli @nixCraft Even if AI could be expected to totally replace every software engineer in the workforce it's still a valuable skill as it teaches different ways to think. If we were to stop educating kids in fields we anticipate AI could do 100% then we'd end up not teaching them anything.
And AI is just nowhere near being able to do that.
Peter Butler@eugenialoli @nixCraft but there’s a difference between “don’t make computer science your only focus” and “don’t teach your kids to code”
There’s much value in learning to program software even if it becomes much less lucrative as a career
@peterbutler @nixCraft This was cleared up in the discussion tree. Besides, the nvidia guy surely he meant it as a career, not as a hobby.
@eugenialoli @peterbutler @nixCraft FYI: no-one here can see the whole "discussion tree". A drawback of the distributed nature of the fediverse.
DelRider@eugenialoli @nixCraft I heard it said, focus your career on something you have to lay your hands upon. If your job can be done on a computer in your basement, it can be done in someone else's basement on the other side of the planet. Don't want to pay a plumber to take the job? Fine, clean out your own pipes.
Joel Falcou, Ph. D@eugenialoli @nixCraft except currently AI is a stochastic parrot spouting crap 99% of the time.
AI don't create or understand it just do ugly copypasta of code written.by someone else.
@monkeyofhope @eugenialoli @nixCraft yeah , I va been in CS since 2005, did old school classifiers SvM annd other stuff etc..
It is always better in 5 years yet still nothing.
Jason Kraus@eugenialoli @nixCraft wish they'd work on automating executive roles as hard as they work on putting artists, writers, videographers, receptionists, and programmers out of work.
@eugenialoli @nixCraft So-called "AI" will be dead within two years -- at least as the miracle thing that will replace coding (helpdesks / artists/ animators / plumbers / whatever). It's a grift. It can't think or learn, and it can't get better at these things without starting again from scratch. Those that say otherwise are selling something.
It does have some value as brainstorming tool -- or anywhere else where it doesn't have to be 100% right.
Simon Willcocks@eugenialoli @nixCraft If you're a programmer who thinks their job can be taken by an AI, you're a crap programmer who just searches for solutions on stackoverflow and probably doesn't know what a stack overflow is.
Alexander Knochel@eugenialoli @nixCraft I don't want to sound like Karl Marx, but when no-one can get a decent paying job bc AI & robots have taken them all, it's time to think about who those AIs and robots are working *for*
@quantensalat @nixCraft We're moving towards decentralized ownership models.
@eugenialoli @nixCraft I'm not seeing.it happening, but I'd be happy to be corrected
Klara ❤️@eugenialoli @nixCraft Still, knowledge is power. And it's not far-fetched that someone selling proprietary solutions would want to be one of the few, rather than one of the many, to be able to have deep knowledge, and thus, power over it. I think that coding is basically necessary for understanding machine learning, and since everyone now wants to sell that as the solution to everything, people having at least basic knowledge of it will be necessary. Otherwise we will have an even more uneven society.
Freevolt@nixCraft Before accepting advice from someone, consider if that person wants you to be better or dumber. A rule of thumb is usually people with whatever power over you (financial, political, physical, ...) want you to be dumber because it's easier to secure their power that way.
Giles Goat@nixCraft WHO SAYS WHAT ?? 😱 CRITICAL THINKING is the most important thing ! Also "you need a SET of skills/teaching of different things to make you able to understand different things and compare. And then you need to be taught "how to use your mind to think/solve problems" is not "pointless" it what gives you "the tools to analyse and make your own conclusions from facts or ideas".
🇺🇸 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🐧 🥦The Nvidia CEO is telling people not to teach their kids STEM, art, and personal finance?
Pierre@nixCraft he said that? Lmao
Thomas SchäferOk, but why "build strong nations"?
🌲🧿 "Max"t💽d🏵️n 🔎🍄@nixCraft I was with you until the "strong nations" part.
We are humans on a planet.
Von Javi@nixCraft It is insane how much people listen and repeat notorious people without thinking of the biases of their comments. He has been hyping the nvda/ai bubble for years and made himself very rich on the way.
Mark W. AlexanderAll of that except coding. If my kids had learned coding, they'd have learned COBOL and FORTRAN.
I assure you, whatever hot language they learn today will NOT be useful when they go to work.
Given all the other skills, coding is literally just learning other specialized languages to express the other fields and there *will* be better ones.
@AnonymooseGuy @nixCraft True, but learning *how to code* is a transferrable skill.
@AnonymooseGuy @nixCraft LOL, but no. Not only is the skill of breaking down things into simple sequences of objective statements something that applies to all programming languages -- it's transferrable to other things, too.