Nobody likes the 30% AppStore fee, but it has never been a credit card processing cost.
It has always been a marketplace access fee.
That’s the principle of building malls and other commercial public spaces: they invest to create a space for people to flock into and advertise and maintain it.
That’s what you are paying for.
Why?
Why is this not equivalent to desktop software, where you can install applications from wherever you want, without paying a tithe to the OS and/or the hardware manufacturer?
Retail markup is fine. If I buy in your store, you apply your markup.
But I specifically asked about applications installed from without the App Store, and you said the 30% fee should apply to those as well.
When I ask why, you mention a non-analogous situation: retail markup. 🤷♂️
@Migueldeicaza I think most people don't like it not because they see it as a hefty fee, but because they don't have a choice to sell elsewhere...
This is not because that marketplace is fantastic and the others suck, but because Apple makes it virtually impossible to sell elsewhere* with the excuse of security (clearly in bad faith), acting as a monopoly.
*Note: an app for iPhone is NOT the same product as an app for Android or other systems, as it requires explicit adjustments.
As a citizen/consumer, you can always choose to go to a different mall, or just independent small local stores.
As a user of Apple products, you don't have that same freedom of choice if you need/want to improve the functionality provided by the devices you own.
@castarco idk, in the metaphor of the “mall” I think you can easily make a case that Android is just another mall, so is the web, and you are very much able to sell your product (what, a mobile game?) in each location.
Malls provide you with all the infrastructure and tools you need to set up shop and peddle your wares, but the shop owner still needs to package, merchandise, advertise, etc their goods.
@pmoeser @Migueldeicaza I meant I am locked in to Apple as a customer. There’s no exit for me. Functionally Apple is a monopoly for me. That’s true for many if not most Apple customers.
It’s the only mall I can go to. Ever.
@Migueldeicaza Key difference is that anyone is allowed to build another mall or venue but are unable to because the current mall owner doesn't allow it and removes the choice of shopping anywhere else.
Demands a cut of all sales and then tells you they are the only one who can provide value as they prevent anyone else from doing it.
@Migueldeicaza The outlet mall is still under control of the same guy just a different set of restrictions.
Let the user decide how they transact with a third party. Apple can still keep their walled garden but not on a per transaction basis.
@Migueldeicaza You’re forgetting one important point:
Apple also provides the means for that access. And I’m not talking about the app store but all those tools, APIs and systems. Those cost money too!
Of course Apple could charge users for it, but isn’t it fair that the people benefiting from it more directly also pay for it?
I say that as a Dev myself
When people talk about “back in the day” they often forget that the Developer Programs were also much much more expensive.
@Migueldeicaza Ok but the tentants wouldn't complain so much if they didn't get stopped by security for inane reasons, rifraff walkway vendors allowed to set up shop, and scores of other things where the proprietor tries to prevent them from succeeding.
High rent prices for mid, if not low rent marketplace.
@Migueldeicaza
Your periodic reminder that the inventor of malls originally envisioned them as publicly funded. publicly accessible spaces where people could freely gather and socialize.
It was capitalists who decided to fill them with stores, and ads, make them private property, and charge everyone a fee to exist in what used to be public property.
@etchedpixels you get to choose if you want to build microwaves that work on all malls or sold in your store. .net, flutter and the web all offer that.
The fee to sell on the AppStore is about accessing a specific marketplace. And you might be enticed to build products purely for that ecosystem.
@Migueldeicaza Only if you don't have market power - which apple certainly do.
March 7th will be interesting.
@Migueldeicaza @etchedpixels I think you analogy there is flawed, and therefore you've just constructed a quaint straw man argument.
The concept that Apple treats the web akin to native is laughable.
Apple control what sellers sell fair more than any comparable or existing ecosystem. They abuse their monopoly/duopoly to control what people can do with their platform, and consistently gatekeep.
Allowing multiple app stores to compete on their platform would be a step forward.
@intrbiz @etchedpixels the analogy was there to help people understand. Feel free to debate the merits of my analogy - just don’t CC me.
The base line is simple: Apple charges a fee to access their market. It was stated in black and white in the epic trial.
@Migueldeicaza I'm definitely fine paying that fee. But I also would like a possibility to NOT use the fancy mall access if I don't want to, and sell my stuff privately in the alley nearby 😉
Sadly without sideloading it's not possible 🤷♂️ You need to use the mall and obey to all the rules, which sometimes are arbitrary.
@kkolakowski @Migueldeicaza 100% this.
Apple wants to charge you to sell stuff in their fancy mall? This is fair.
But forbidding you from selling something on your own to an iPhone user is not ok and hopefully illegal. I don't pay $1k for my phone (with Apple's huge margin) to not own it.
@Migueldeicaza There are some people who like that fee very much.
Oddly, including a lot of your followers. [ apu diving dot gif ]
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