Boeing’s #1 problem is not that they lack a culture of accountability.

It’s that they *hate unions* and *hate criticism.* So many of Boeing's major actions in the last 20, even 30 years have had to do with their attempts to break unions and escape political pressure in Washington State. The payoff is pressing workers without enough training, denigrating and overruling the work of union employees, and outsourcing work to avoid increasing union employment. This has cost them $10s of billions.

‘This Has Been Going on for Years.’ Inside Boeing’s Manufacturing Mess. — The Wall Street Journal

Outsourcing worried engineers and sparked battles over quality before a door plug blew out on an Alaska Airlines plane midflight

From the No-Shit Sherlock department: ‘In 2011, former Boeing executive Jim Albaugh said that the approach had backfired. “In hindsight, we spent a lot more money in trying to recover than we ever would have spent if we tried to keep many of the key technologies closer to Boeing,” he said in an address at Seattle University. “The pendulum swung too far.”’
Arguably, a lot of companies have suffered, none worse than Boeing, because of unreasonable hatred of unions. They bring that hatred into negotiations that they then lose, costing them huge sums while the unions often get most or all of what they want.
@glennf They actually don't care about the money. If they did they'd stop doing this. What they care about is exerting their superiority over the lowly proles who don't know who the Master of the Universe are. Money serves power.
The 1997 merger that paved the way for the Boeing 737 Max crisis

Only now, with the plane indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects.

Yahoo Finance
@the_other_jon @glennf This. It's Boeing's poisoned acquisition of McDonnel Douglas that ruined it.
@redrummy @the_other_jon @glennf I know at least a dozen Boeing employees and they all agree.
@glennf Oooh, that’s a good quote.
@waldoj I didn’t know that about it until reading the article—it’s like the Mythical Man-Month sound bite about late projects getting later.

@glennf

There's an inherent tension here.

The subcontractor's business plan is not the same as the actual plan. As with the actual plan, the main plan of the subcontractor is to divert money from execution of the actual plan.

Airline plan is "operate aircraft affordably safe enough to sell tickets," different from Boeing plan "affordably safe enough to sell airplanes.).

Everything but money is secondary. Financiers prioritize
money above all and aviation is financialized.

@glennf

Better articulated, more deeply explored.

Gift link.

(I've a person close to me who took early retirement as a senior avionics software engineer because of the growing financial stink of Boeing. It's been a horrible process to watch.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/boeing-737-max-corporate-culture/677120/?gift=w2hbEf3JROTUmsXaSUzB4ULtWlb8_GRJrQWxo0Qr2vA&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

What’s Gone Wrong at Boeing

Behind the 737 Max’s persistent problems is the erosion of a valuable corporate culture. That will be harder to fix than a loose bolt.

The Atlantic

@glennf

Or as one says of IT security, "we're only as safe as the least qualified user."

@glennf

I mean, this is true of every industry and people die because of it. Why should aerospace be any different?

@sboots *beats drum on gov’t outsourcing*
@glennf it's insane. Like the value of a tenured person who's worked the line for years - you honestly can't make up for that regardless of process and tooling.

@glennf

I think you've hit the nail on the head, and more: any culture, corporate or other, which finds criticism to be anathemic will never and *can* never hold itself responsible for any of its failings, and will always resist change outright due to the fact that making a willing and positive change means admitting a lack of perfection.

The result hasn't just been a loss of billions, but a gradual and continual onset of stagnation and decay within Boeing, once one of the most trusted names in aeronautics.

@glennf

So too Boeing's loathing of unions, because of one simple axiom:

Unions effect change.

And they effect change in part through exposing the weak links, the abuse, the inconsistencies and inefficiencies in the corporate structure as seen through the lens of workers' rights.

Criticism, in other words. Healthy stuff, like listening to your doctor when they say to cut back on a chain-smoking habit.

But some folks take that as an attack...

@theogrin This is great analysis. The control-freakery of bosses can't withstand that!
@theogrin @glennf This brings to mind the largest miscarriage of justice in the UK: the Post Office put hundreds of postmasters in prison because it could not countenance the idea that its software systems were wrong: https://theconversation.com/the-post-office-scandal-is-possibly-the-largest-miscarriage-of-justice-in-uk-history-and-its-not-over-yet-211217#:~:text=The%20Post%20Office%20scandal%20is,and%20it's%20not%20over%20yet
The Post Office scandal is possibly the largest miscarriage of justice in UK history – and it's not over yet

The fallout from the Post Office scandal continues 20 years on as the statutory inquiry is delayed due more disclosure failings.

The Conversation
@glennf Isn't it mostly cost to taxpayers? Isn't most of their business now govt/military, where cost plus is built into the contracts (space capsule a rare exception)?
@dangillmor That is a superb question. Boeing obtained over $10 billion in tax abatement from WA state alone in a highly criticized move undermined almost immediately by the company choosing non-WA sites for future plane assembly and then moving its HQ. (The $10bn was later reduced.) Whatever fixed or all-covered $ they make on that side has to be affected by the tens of billions lost on the consumer?
@dangillmor @glennf they are 50/50 but many firm fixed-price contracts. Some have been $ losers. Boeing is following the WGI playbook - win the business by losing your shirt.
@glennf like all unethical companies in the US it does not cost them anything. The just pass the costs off to customers.

@glennf Hey, remember that time when Boeing got an $8.7B tax break from the state, then started moving non-Machinists union jobs out of state anyway?

I hope we start charging them extra to stay here.

@mattmay Good times, good times. Amazingly, Inslee survived that. His worst decision by a nautical mile. I think Boeing later *asked* for the break to be suspended for WTO rules…

@glennf Yep. I think it was originally $10B, but they couldn’t cash in that other $1.3B because of the WTO decision.

Anyway, we know what they are now. We don’t need to be the ones to bail them out of this one.

@mattmay Just imagine if they hadn't wasted 25 years or more being anti-union. It wouldn't have been a paradise, but I am *pretty* sure the Dreamliner wouldn't be never profitable and the MAX 8/9 wouldn't have passed the smell test.
@glennf Yeah, when I looked into it and found out that contractor, Spirit, was recently called “Boeing” I had that Scooby-Doo villain reax
@glennf you mean it cost US tens of billions.
@jeffzugale Maybe their shareholders—airlines are the customers and there's competition with Airbus, etc.
@glennf they’re the biggest defense contractor to the US by far. Our tax dollars at work.
@jeffzugale Right, but this is out of a different pot. If they can charge what they lose to the defense budget, shame on us. Those contracts are pork barrel, but I don't think they regain tens of billions of losses from the consumer aviation market that way.
@glennf I don’t know how their divisions are structured, so I accept the notion of two pots. If you’re only referring to their airliner business, okay.
@jeffzugale I mean if they make $20 billion in the govt/mil side and lose $10 billion on the commercial, I assume that affects them overall!
@glennf Long time ago, maybe in the 1980s, I came upon a study that found that unionized companies were overall more profitable than similar companies that were not unionized. I recall that an organization called "The Conference Board" published this. It made a lot of sense and I've never forgotten it. But resistance to being told what to do is very high with CEOs. They are authoritarian and egotistical and don't want others telling them they're doing it wrong or could do it better. They really won't listen. Many people who start companies do it because they want to be the boss. They resent "underlings" who try to change things for the better, big time.

@glennf This should have been a huge public scandal 20 years ago, but Boeing got it mostly swept up.

https://archive.is/6I4UU

@glennf You can be a sales company or you can be an engineering company. You cannot be both and you cannot mix the two approaches.

If you're a sales company, you go out of business because you can't innovate and people will figure out that you constantly lie to them.

If you're an engineering company, got out of business because you fail to win contracts because a sales company will undersell you. Only when you're the sole source or in tight, fussy, affluent markets can you hope to prosper.

@glennf It's hard to avoid the feeling that something, somewhere, is structurally wrong.

(With Boeing, certainly, but not just Boeing. Boeing is at least the classic "You can have success, or you can have control; you cannot have both. Don't promote people who want control.")

@glennf
regulations and unions… sounds like accountability
@glennf Yeah dude, every Boeing mishap over the last 20 years has been absolutely in line with their move away from union labor.
@glennf
Also to lay off more expensive (and more experienced) workers in favor of cheaper, newer people.
@glennf It all went to shit when they merged with McDonnell Douglas. The engineering first culture was destroyed by the sharks and corporate climbers from McDonnel Douglas. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/646497/flying-blind-by-peter-robison/
Flying Blind by Peter Robison: 9780593082515 | PenguinRandomHouse.com: Books

NEW YORK TIMES BUSINESS BESTSELLER • A suspenseful behind-the-scenes look at the dysfunction that contributed to one of the worst tragedies in modern av...

PenguinRandomhouse.com

@glennf a brilliant but terrifying and unnecessary lesson in how hating criticism too much only refines it more and more into the level of criticism that can basically destroy you or your company.

id rather sit in the cargo section with a heavy coat and an oxygen cylinder than fly on a boeing.

@glennf The 777 was their last decent aircraft.
@glennf I have a number of friends my age who were senior engineers at Boeing. Super smart, dedicated, loyal to the mission in the old way you don't see anymore. They all got let go or pushed to take buyouts about 10 years ago. They all knew this was coming.

@glennf And I just remembered this 21 year old post I had bookmarked years ago: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213075

"The Downfall of a Great American Airplane Company - An Insider's Perspective"

@pauld Oof. No one who has followed them is surprised at this outcome.
@glennf I came across this in my grandfather’s #Boeing machinists toolbox…
@glennf Boeing equipping a genocide sucks too
@glennf I knew it was going to be a big mistake when they moved manufacturing to SC. That and the merger were huge mistakes. I couldn’t wait to retire and finally got out in 2014 after 35 years.
@DebR You got out at the right time!!