Graham SnyderJan 8, 2024
JA Westenberg

I harbor no illusions about the complexity of capitalism; I understand it is neither the sole, simple source of our world's challenges nor a structure that can be dismantled overnight. To paint capitalism as the root of all evil is to oversimplify a vastly intricate tapestry of economic, social, and political dynamics.

https://joanwestenberg.com/blog/how-to-quit-capitalism

How to quit capitalism. — Joan Westenberg

Let's start with something controversial: Capitalism is not an economic system. It is a philosophical and ideological force that shapes our lives, environment, and perception of humanity. It's a behemoth that thrives on relentless growth, often at a devastating cost. Under its reign, we witness the

Joan Westenberg
Jan 7, 2024 at 9:00pmIvory for Mac
Show threadopfezJan 8, 2024

@Daojoan

Hi! I read your article and I have some criticism to it. I hope that we can have a discussion about some of the topics :) First, what I agree with: You see a lot of the current problems manifest in society, and I think a lot of the changes you suggest would have a real impact on people's lives, for the better. Your analysis that capitalism treats everything like commodities to be traded is also spot on. However, I disagree with what you define as "capitalism".

Show threadopfezJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan Capitalism is an economic system that forms the base of our society, that is, the system of how means of production and property relations are structured. The things you go on to describe are examples of the superstructure in society, which is determined by the base. Superstructure and base will influence each other after this.
Show threadopfezJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan (I think we agree on this, it is just that I use capitalism to strictly mean the base and you seem to merge the superstructure with the definition, which can absolutely work, I just find it easier to separate it this way).
Show threadopfezJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan I see that you are suggesting changes to the base of society, by for example suggesting shorter work hours and basic income. My critique is that these are quantitative changes rather than qualitative ones, and that while it does help, it doesn't solve the underlying problems that are introduced by market relations rather than social ones.
Show threadopfezJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan I live in a country with a high degree of welfare, good working conditions (every industry is governed by unions), universal healthcare etc. However, the problems of capitalism still manifest in that we have to participate in the world imperialist system by exploiting the global south for profit. I struggle to see how your suggested changes would affect this part of capitalism, for instance.
Show threadJA WestenbergJan 8, 2024
@opfez Thank you for a thoughtful critique! I appreciate your distinction between the quantitative and qualitative aspects of capitalism. While measures like shorter work hours and basic income can improve lives, they don't fundamentally alter capitalism's exploitative nature; but we do have to start somewhere. Welfare and positive domestic policies don't negate the broader impacts of capitalist systems globally…but they’re still a strong initiative.
Show threadopfezJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan (To be specific, capitalism is many things but the capitalist mode of production and capitalist market relations form the base)
Show threadThumbs UpJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan very nice article. I agree with the problem and many of the solutions you propose. I’ve started to waver on ideas of UBI, though mostly for how its effectiveness can be eroded by market forces under capitalism. I’d be interested to to see how it works in a market-socialist environment. I tend to think giving the goods directly (housing, food, healthcare, transit) may be more effective. But I can’t say with certainty.
Show threadWikiPartyJan 8, 2024
@thumbsup @Daojoan If social safety nets are provided in kind, economies of scale can make them cheaper; if the safety net is cash, prices of basic goods & services will soon inflate, defeating the intention.
Show threadThumbs UpJan 8, 2024
@michaelgraaf @Daojoan this is my assumption as well.
Show threadShankarJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan any books or reading material you’d recommend to understand a post-capitalist future more?
Show threadTrojan DuckJan 8, 2024
@Daojoan I've done all I can to drop out of society altogether. I (with mixed success) try not to buy what I don't need, try not to give any money to companies I don't like, don't really socialize anymore except with a couple of people I really like -- and I've never been happier. Modern life is misery-inducing. You don't realize how bad it is until you start to eliminate parts of it. If you can, drop out, simplify, downsize, economize. The modern world needs you much more than you need it.
Show threadMichaelJan 9, 2024
@Daojoan I use the term unbridled capitalism. We need guard rails.
Show threadvelocykelJan 10, 2024
@Daojoan Joan -- well written and insightful. I enjoyed your perspective and I appreciate you putting your thoughts out there. I'll continue to follow your work and look forward to your next piece.
Show threadJA WestenbergJan 10, 2024
@velocykel thank you!