Mastodawn

Biden under pressure to act amid new fears of ‘ethnic cleansing’ in Gaza

https://lemmy.ca/post/12540330

Biden under pressure to act amid new fears of ‘ethnic cleansing’ in Gaza - Lemmy.ca

Rights advocates in the United States are urging President Joe Biden to end his administration’s “complicity” in Israeli rights abuses after key members of Israel’s government backed the idea of pushing Palestinians out of Gaza. Far-right Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich said this week that Israel should “encourage emigration” from the coastal enclave, home to an estimated 2.3 million Palestinians. “If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not two million Arabs, the entire discussion on the day after [the war ends] will be totally different,” Smotrich said on Sunday, calling for the “voluntary migration” of Palestinians. A day later, Ben-Gvir, who oversees national security, made a similar appeal, saying it was “a correct, just, moral and humane solution”, Israeli media outlets reported.

FuglyDuck Jan 3, 2024

Are we sure we want him to act?

Might send more bombs.

Altofaltception Jan 3, 2024

I think what needs to happen is get Trump to say he’ll support Israel. Then anti-Trump Biden will have to say he doesn’t support Israel.

Two days later it will be chalked up to the ramblings of a senile old man and Israel will get the latest in phosphorus technology.

Cethin Jan 3, 2024

Trump has already said many times his position. He tried to move things even further to supporting Israel. Biden isn’t the anti-Trump, but he’s what we’ve got. Hopefully he’ll do what’s right.

Altofaltception Jan 3, 2024

Spoiler: he won’t.

Zorque Jan 3, 2024

Almost like we need to stop hedging our bets on a single office.

NoneOfUrBusiness Jan 3, 2024

What other office can do something about Israel?

Milk_Sheikh Jan 3, 2024

Nobody. That’s the tragedy. As long as APIAC throws lobbying dollars around and hardline US Jews and Christians refuse any stance except 100% support, America’s UNSC veto (or threat therein-of) ensures Israel has political cover.

Just like a long line of awful US ‘strategic allies’ like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Pinochet, Saddam, etc…

TheSanSabaSongbird Jan 3, 2024

The presidency was never meant to be as powerful as it has become.

machinin Jan 3, 2024

I wonder what it would take for Biden to act. The actual bombing and killing isn’t enough. Are these statements by Israeli leadership what it will take? I don’t really understand what is behind Biden’s support at this point.

FuglyDuck Jan 3, 2024

Probably? AIPAC money drying up.

shalafi Jan 3, 2024

Been wondering the same. Traditionally the US has supported Israel, no matter what. But fuck me. Biden has thrown all has cards on the table in support of genocide, and I still have to vote for him. What a clusterfuck.

Meanwhile, Ukraine is fighting our arch enemy and we’re bickering about whether to send them more arms. Here’s our chance to destroy Russia, once and for all, with not a soldier lost, not even a mildly damaged M4 rifle, and gather all the intelligence in the world on modern combat. Finally. And the GOP won’t do it. Reagan is spinning in his grave.

Doorbook Jan 3, 2024

That when conspiracy theory come to place. When Biden spoke about victims of hamas attack next day, he was and still emphatic. Yet never spoke about the civilians or kids who died in Gaza. He doesn’t sees them.

There are a few options to his actions and looking at all of them they don’t make sense. He is not evangelical working towards the kingdom of Isreal to happen. He doesn’t need money. He doesn’t have relatives living there. Yet he been knowing to be a zainoist since he was a senator.

My conspiracy is that he is blackmailed by Isreal especially when he visited Isreal first time.

Here is a quote about his memory from a few weeks back.

over 50 years ago, as a young senator, I visited Israel for the first time, as a newly elected senator.

“And I had a long, long trip — or meeting with Golda Meir in her office just before the Yom Kippur War. And I guess she could see the consternation on my face as she described what was being faced — they were facing.”

To me it is very clear how compromised the us government by Zionist. Senator, presidents, and most of the rich and important companies which ultimately own the media. If it wasn’t for social media we wouldn’t know much about the suffering that children is going through nor their cries.

Zoboomafoo Jan 3, 2024

I don’t see how that quote supports your point at all

Biden talked to the Israeli PM 50 years ago about how Israel was facing multiple countries that wanted Israel destroyed, shortly before multiple countries attempted to destroy Israel

And this is proof that Zionists have corrupted the US Government?

brain helmet is on Jan 3, 2024

Pudding, vitamin shots and pills from Dr Feelgood

givesomefucks Jan 3, 2024

For literal decades Biden has been telling Israel he’ll support them no matter what, but they need to worry about the optics of their actions…

He’s 100% ok with what’s happening, he just wishes they were quieter while doing it.

He’s not going to hold Israel accountable, because he knows the only other person Americans can vote for us trump.

So Biden sees no reason to stop supporting Israel, in a moderates mind it literally doesn’t matter because the Republicans would be even shittier. Which by some twisted logic means Biden can be just as bad and it’s not a negative.

It’s a great example of why “not a Republican” can’t be the bare minimum for the dem candidate.

Darkassassin07 Jan 3, 2024

‘dissolve your democracy’ or ‘support ethnic cleansing’

Now a great set of choices at the ballots for Americans this election.

metaStatic Jan 3, 2024

I mean ... has America ever halted it's eugenics program?

apfelwoiSchoppen Jan 3, 2024

Founded upon genocides by slaveholders.

shalafi Jan 3, 2024

I got 2 choices comes November. And nothing significant is going to change our voting system between now and then.

FUCK do these moralists propose I do?! After 01/06, I am more than a little wary.

“I don’t like what Biden is doing!”

“Well fuck me, I hate it. Still want a functioning democracy come January 2025?”

Because I’m not liking having an AR-15 leaning on my desk, and a 12-gauge on my nightstand, for when the local Brown Shirts decide I’m “vermin” and they need to raid my house “for my own good”. Anyone think that’s “radical” or “paranoid”? Got steep yourself in some WWII history lessons.

And BTW, the Brown Shirts will be local, on your street, if Trump wins. It won’t be, “Your machine gun gonna fight the military?!” No. All politics are local. Wait and see.

“Mr. Shalafi, look, we’re your neighbors, and we know you love you some guns! But times have changed. We just need to collect those up for your own protection. You can have them back once things calm down, pinky swear.”

Fuck me. I just got a buncha guns because I like shooting and gunsmithing old crappy stuff. Now that hobby is turning serious. And I fucking loathe that change.

I’m 53 soon, and I cannot begin to express how fucking angry I am to have typed those last sentences.

I know, I know, I was complacent, didn’t see it coming. But fuck me, I voted these past decades. And here we are.

I am a peaceful man, but I am not harmless. I’d suggest you gun-grabber libs think on that a moment. Because the other side already has thought on it.

APassenger Jan 3, 2024

The care bear Dems will hold hands and care the situation away.

Fighting for anything is only just starting to be considered. But it’s so very late, now.

Hope we never get to what you describe. We need the laws and LEO to do what’s right and keep things from sliding. Very hard to know that may not happen and I deeply wish Biden held himself to one term.

He has a considerable polling and enthusiasm gap now - and this isn’t the time for that to be true.

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Because I’m not liking having an AR-15 leaning on my desk, and a 12-gauge on my nightstand, for when the local Brown Shirts decide I’m “vermin” and they need to raid my house “for my own good”. Anyone think that’s “radical” or “paranoid”? Got steep yourself in some WWII history lessons.

This is indeed both radical and paranoid.

Milk_Sheikh Jan 3, 2024

Who is the more accelerationist candidate? The one who openly calls himself a dictator (‘on day one only, teehehehe’) or the status-quo octogenarian who continues the moral bankruptcy and refuses to stop lethal support or even public condemnation towards Israel even slightly? And I’m supposed to be thankful that Biden-Harris check the “not Trump lol” box and ignore the rest? Remember the hemming and hawing about Ukraine getting last gen/expiring tech? And we’re just GIVING Israel hardware therein-of active US inventory???

I’d LOVE a viable third party or AVP/STV/etc voting, but electoral reform is a threat to DNC & RNC hegemony, so that never happening without a constitutional convention. So tell me, do you really have a choice at the ballot? Federal and primary races are littered with corporate and party money, there is no organic change coming from DC anymore.

WraithGear Jan 3, 2024

You vote Republican to sink into the muck. You vote Democrat to stand there to let the tide take you. But you don’t have a choice other than to stall and hope that something changes.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

Or here’s a novel idea: the candidate who doesn’t want to dissolve democracy could dramatically increase his chances of winning by NOT enabling genocide including ethnic cleansing and domicide.

I’d set the likelihood of THAT ever happening at zero a month or two ago, but now it seems he’s slowly realizing that enough people actually care more about human rights than empty platitudes and slavish devotion to what’s become an apartheid state that he has to change course.

I’d say there’s now a 10-20% chance he’s going to at least PRETEND to agree that Palestinian lives matter between now and November.

The Ruined Landscape of Gaza After Nearly Three Months of Bombing

The destruction of homes, schools and other buildings resembles some of the most devastating campaigns in modern history

WSJ

APassenger Jan 3, 2024

As a someone on the left, few things are as persuasive and soothing as wrung hands.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

I’m gonna have to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by that.

APassenger Jan 3, 2024

Biden is likely to go out and wring his hands about the difficult situation for everyone involved in the conflict. He’ll show it is something he thinks about, then it will (likely) decrease the pressure on him.

Because he wrung his hands on a stage and/or into a microphone.

My theory is that people think that counts as being heard.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

Yeah, you’re probably spot on 😮‍💨

WraithGear Jan 3, 2024

I don’t know why he bothers, i have never had a choice in an election in the first place. I can’t imagine someone being on the fence at this point unless they are cloaking for an argument.

Lexi Sneptaur Jan 3, 2024

Let me help, it’s more nuanced than that

It’s “dissolve our democracy and support ethnic cleansing at home and abroad” or “support ethnic cleansing abroad only”

brain helmet is on Jan 3, 2024

Thomas Jefferson was right

𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘰 Jan 3, 2024

Biden works for the war machine

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

He’s not going to hold Israel accountable, because he knows the only other person Americans can vote for is trump.

The reason he’s starting to pretend to listen is that he’s losing in the polls.

Turns out that the electorate has a ridiculously short memory.

Turns out that the “I’m not the other guy” tactic is much less effective for an incumbent than a challenger.

Most shockingly, it turns out that continuing to ignore the rightful moral outrage of as many as half of your potential voters, maybe even more, is an extremely bad idea even if your opponent is objectively many times worse than you.

So yeah, as much as he hates it, he’s gonna have to do something different, or at least pretend to, and he knows it.

givesomefucks Jan 3, 2024

The reason he’s starting to pretend to listen is that he’s losing in the polls

He’s been polling bad this whole time…

And just illegally went around Congress to “sell” weapons to Israel in exchange for a small slice of the billions we’ve given them this year.

I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic

But it’s just not what’s actually happening…

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

He’s been polling bad this whole time…

It’s gone from bad to worse in the last couple of months, though.

I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic

I’d say that giving it a 10-20% likelihood of happening in spite of him almost certainly being forced to do it or lose is rather pessimistic tbh…

But it’s just not what’s actually happening

I’m not saying it’s happening. I’m saying that the likelihood of it happening in the future has increased from nonexistent to very small, theoretically.

givesomefucks Jan 3, 2024

It’s gone from bad to worse in the last couple of months, though

Factually incorrect…

www.270towin.com/…/national

That doesn’t mean I agree with anything else you’re saying, I’m just not going to provide a source that disproves every single thing you just said, because it’s not a good use of time so I’m trying to focus on just one thing.

National 2024 Presidential Election Polls - 270toWin

Polling conducted for the 2024 President election in National.

270toWin.com

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Even before this Israel shit, Biden doesn’t have a good chance.

The election year just started, and these numbers are going to change dramatically

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Most shockingly, it turns out that continuing to ignore the rightful moral outrage of as many as half of your potential voters

Strong disagree on this language.

jcpa.org/new-u-s-poll-raises-questions-about-amer…

Anyone in the 10% that thinks hostages or sexual assault is a lie, or that Jews overplay the fucking Holocaust, are not “rightful” and their concerns do not come from empathy, because they lack empathy as a concept.

New U.S. Poll Raises Questions about Americans’ Support for Israel’s War against Hamas

25% of Americans: Reports of Sexual Assaults against Israeli Women by Hamas – Not Reliable - New U.S. Poll Raises Questions about Americans’ Support for Israel’s War against Hamas

Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

Is it right to be morally outraged by an ongoing genocide, ethnic cleansing and domicide? Yes or no?

The indisputable facts that Hamas has committed heinous terrorism and that the holocaust happened and was unimaginably awful doesn’t excuse the crimes against humanity committed by the Israeli government, so please pack your fucking whataboutism away.

SCB Jan 3, 2024

It’s not whataboutism to demonstrate that an election-significant number of Democrats believe Hamas bullshit over reality, and that the number of people who believe that is enough to change Dem support from strong majority agreement with the President to disagreement.

It’s also not whataboutism to point out that nearly a third of people polled have generally no opinion on such basic things as “did the Holocaust happen” or “was the Hamas terror attack a big deal” or “does Hamas target civilians.”

War does indeed suck and you’re allowed to not like it and even use your irresponsibly inflammatory language, but it’s absurd to suggest these comments are whataboutism.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

It’s not whataboutism to demonstrate that an election-significant number of Democrats believe Hamas bullshit over reality

Even if the pro-IDF propaganda piece you linked to had successfully demonstrated that, yes it would still be a whataboutism.

What Americans believe has no bearing on whether the Israeli government should be allowed to systematically slaughter and demolish their way through Palestinians, including children, at a rate completely unheard of anywhere in the world in recent years.

It’s also not whataboutism to point out that nearly a third of people polled have generally no opinion on such basic things as “did the Holocaust happen” or “was the Hamas terror attack a big deal” or “does Hamas target civilians.”

Yes it is. That is by definition whataboutism. Maybe you need to look up what whataboutism is. While you’re at it, look up “bad faith arguments” and several logical fallacies.

War does indeed suck

And war crimes perpetrated against a mostly defenseless civilization population of over 50% children are much worse.

you’re allowed to not like it

Gee, thanks! So generous of you!

irresponsibly accurate inflammatory language

Fixed that for you

it’s absurd to suggest these comments are whataboutism.

Again, just Google it. You can also use a better search engine, but PLEASE look up the word you keep pretending you know the meaning of.

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Even if the pro-IDF propaganda piece you linked to had successfully demonstrated that, yes it would still be whataboutism since what Americans believe has no bearing on whether the Israeli government should be allowed to systematically slaughter and demolish their way through Palestinians, including children, at a rate completely unheard of anywhere in the world in recent years.

You do understand that you are literally expressing a thing that some Americans believe, yes? Like, you get that your position is an opinion, right?

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

Yes, it is indeed an opinion that committing atrocities is a bad thing to do. Well done on finally getting something right.

It’s a VERY popular opinion though, one shared by so many people that the world has decided that people are not allowed to do that bad thing.

That the Israeli Apartheid regime is committing genocide, ethnic cleansing and domicide isn’t an opinion, though. It’s an objective fact by all definitions of all the words.

A fact not changed by whether or not some misguided Americans think or pretend to think that the atrocities of Hamas are justified or that the holocaust didn’t happen.

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Yes, it is indeed an opinion that committing atrocities is a bad thing to do. Well done on finally getting something right.

You’re not dumb. You know that people disagree with you on the atrocities you claim.

For instance, it’s impossible to have an apartheid system against another country. Israel is, by definition, not an apartheid state.

It’s hilarious to me that you’ll try to bring up the definitions of words after that - perhaps this is why your opinion is so extreme.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

You’re not dumb.

Wow, you’ve already doubled the number of things you’ve been right about! At this rate we’ll only have to keep arguing a couple months more until you stop being an insincere moron!

You know that people disagree with you on the atrocities you claim.

I know that some people deny objective reality, yes, but that doesn’t make objective reality any less real or any more subjective.

it’s impossible to have an apartheid system against another country.

Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs living in Israel and Israel-occupied and/or -controlled Palestine are treated as, at best, second class citizens. Desmond Tutu agreed that Israel is an Apartheid state and he of all people should know.

It’s hilarious to me that you’ll try to bring up the definitions of words after that

I guess the truth sometimes looks like hilarious comedy to those who believe in ridiculous gaslighting such as that coming from Times of Israel, AIPAC and Faux News 🤷

your opinion is so extreme.

Yeah, it’s SO extreme to think that the lives of Palestinians matter! Such an audacious notion! 🙄

Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians

Tutu, the Nobel Peace laureate, criticized Israeli policies toward the Palestinians in the territories as "humiliating."

The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs living in Israel and Israel-occupied and/or -controlled Palestine are treated as, at best, second class citizens

You went to all the effort to site Tutu and yet provide no evidence for this, because they’re not, and they literally have representation in Israel’s government.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

they literally have representation in Israel’s government.

Yeah, because everyone knows that having 1/12 of the knesset be Arabs means that there’s not systemic inequality and oppression of Arabs and other minority groups! 🤦

provide no evidence

here’s some evidence you’re gonna ignore or pretend to refute.

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Yeah, because everyone knows that having 1/12 of the knesset be Arabs means that there’s not systemic inequality and oppression of Arabs and other minority groups

It’s proportionate to their population.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

It’s proportionate to their population.

No. As pointed out in the article you just pretended to have read, the Jewish and Palestine populations of the territories controlled by Israel are roughly equal.

This article is about the Palestinian territory, a different country than Israel.

“between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River, an area encompassing Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT)”.

It’s right in the opening sentence of the fucking summary the report starts with ffs! 🤦

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Gaza is not in Israel lol. It’s an occupied territory, not part of their country. Hamas runs Gaza as the official government.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

Gaza is de facto controlled by Israel and as such is their responsibility.

Even if Hamas wasn’t a terrorist organization first, a political advocacy group second and a government as a WAY distant third, they still wouldn’t be able to properly take care of the people of Gaza, given the inhumane conditions created and enforced by Israel.

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Gaza is de facto controlled by Israel and as such is their responsibility

Both of these statements are false. Not “I disagree.” They are false and they would offend the fuck out of Gazans.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

They control the food supply, the water supply, the power supply, the fuel supply, the medicine supply and the international aid supply.

That means that they’re in control and it’s in no way offensive towards Gazans to acknowledge that.

SCB Jan 3, 2024

Hamas didn’t build any infrastructure with Iran’s money. They built bombs. Israel voluntarily provided power to Gaza, but is under no compulsion to provide power to an enemy they’re actively at war with.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

Hamas didn’t build any infrastructure with Iran’s money

Where would they have gotten water for the cement or fuel for the machines? Money’s not very useful when someone else is actively preventing you from using them on the things you need.

They built bombs

As does Israel with the tens of billions of dollars the US sends every year. Israel spends more than the entire GDP of Palestine on murdering Palestinians every year.

under no compulsion to provide power to an enemy they’re actively at war with.

It’s a quasi-occupied territory that they have made sure can’t get power in any other way. For Israel not to provide power to Gaza is Israel preventing Gaza from having power at.

And they’re actively at war with Hamas, not the entire population. The vast majority of which has never harmed a single Israeli citizen and over 50% of which is CHILDREN.

zbyte64 Jan 4, 2024

For instance, it’s impossible to have an apartheid system against another country. Israel is, by definition, not an apartheid state.

What other country has their roads, electricity, water, trade, and police controlled by another?

Like there are words, and then there are facts on the ground. It walks and quacks like an apartheid.

SCB Jan 4, 2024

What other country has their roads, electricity, water, trade, and police controlled by another?

What other country is blockaded for 30-60 years of terrorism?

Like there are words, and then there are facts on the ground. It walks and quacks like an apartheid.

If words don’t have any meaning to you, then your argument admittedly makes more sense. When you say “apartheid” you just mean “shit I don’t like.” It’s basically the “neoliberal” of Israel lol

TheSanSabaSongbird Jan 3, 2024

Again, while I don’t necessarily otherwise disagree with you, you are a little confused on whataboutism.

Viking_Hippie Jan 3, 2024

Nope, I’m not. Those comments mention things that have absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand but the one bringing them up tries to derail the discussion by insisting that they’re not only relevant but in fact crucial to the matter at hand.

That’s textbook whataboutism.

TheSanSabaSongbird Jan 3, 2024

That’s not whataboutism. Whataboutism is changing the subject to derail the conversation. This is simply addressing a different point of view in the same discussion.