Andrew WalsheDec 7, 2023
Mike [SEC=OFFICIAL]

Putting software in containers is cruel and unnatural.

Programs should be allowed to roam and graze freely on computer systems. Forcibly isolating and constraining them will lead only undue suffering.

Use of technologies such as Docker in systems administration must be ended immediately, there is no ethical justification for inflicting trauma like this in an enlightened society.

In this "free range software manifesto" I will -

Nov 16, 2023 at 1:27amWeb
Show threadMike [SEC=OFFICIAL]Nov 16, 2023
Muting this post immediately because I know what I've done.
Show threadMike [SEC=OFFICIAL]Nov 16, 2023
This was absolutely the correct decision, Past Mike.
Show threadKimOct 13, 2024
@mike I think I need to print this and put it on the wall at work =)
Show threadthe gripe ibisNov 16, 2023
@mike were i a more malicious individual, i would add the hashtags you appear to have neglected to include
Show threadsmegNov 16, 2023

@mike I think it leads to lazy software development and systems administration. Nobody has to know how a piece of software works. And we can pretend that containerization means we don't have to worry about old and insecure dependencies.

I use containers when something is very complex to setup and I don't want to bother with it, but I try to set it up manually when I can because I get more knowledge and control.

Show threadrastilinNov 16, 2023

@smeg @mike

I don't think we necessarily need to know how every random software works inside and out just to try it. But my biggest annoyance with containers is that it leads to lazier development.

What actually happens is that instead of outputting useful error messages or failing gracefully the software just crashes outright and now it's a container problem instead of "if it needs 'x' installed, why does it not check for 'x' on start" kind of problem. Things that should have been solved in the development phase now become a deployment issue; and that still doesn't stop people from packaging broken containers.

Show threadLulu 🍉 לולוNov 16, 2023

@mike

Enough of the hatred and exploitation by the segmentation typicals who preach memory and thread predictability normativity!

Show threadJoYoNov 16, 2023
@mike you say your software is free yet you trap it in containers, curious.
Show threadAzNov 16, 2023
@mike @shmouflon free range cranes, free range software
Show threadShmoufNov 16, 2023
@az sanctuaries for all, even the ones they call buggy.
Show threadapophisNov 16, 2023
@mike free as in bird
Show threadpsfNov 16, 2023
@mike Similarly, sandboxes are only natural for tidal- and desert-zone programs (🦀🐪).
Show threadaethervisionNov 16, 2023
@mike Vealware
Show threadThierry 🅰️🕒Nov 16, 2023
@mike IMHO this great news needs to be re publish 1st of april.
Show threadThierry 🅰️🕒Nov 16, 2023
@mike have you noticed how IT world is mad ?
Think about ecology in JVM : all that garbage collected and destroyed instead of being recycled. Zillions of bits dumped worldwide every second, destroyed instead of being reused or given to old CPUs.
Show threadfaceNov 16, 2023
@mike Also, doing tests on innocent programs held in captivity is cruel. I can't imagine what kind of monsters work I QA! Just push to production and let things sort themselves out the natural way.
Show threadviqNov 16, 2023
@mike
Ah, unikernels ;D
Show threadSamuel BreuNov 16, 2023
@mike 😂
Show threadRavelineNov 16, 2023
@mike This, but unironically.
Show threadDavid MooneyNov 16, 2023
@mike Software is far too dangerous to be let out on its own. It should exist only on punched cards and be run as a batch job, under the close supervision on a well-trained operator.
Show thread2¢Nov 16, 2023
@mike at least use KVMs so that the programs don't get claustrophobic.
Show threadweird hermNov 16, 2023
@mike FROSS
Show threadSantiago Lema Nov 16, 2023
@mike @foone Aren’t worms and viruses the only truly free software ? Free to live. Free to sleep on any machine they want to and wake up only to replicate passionately attaching onto any executable or library as if there was no tomorrow.
Show threadTim LavoieNov 16, 2023
@santiago @mike @foone There's always Core War.
https://corewar.co.uk/
Core War - Discover the Ultimate Programming Game

Discover the world of Core War, the strategic programming game where programs battle to eliminate each other in the memory of the MARS virtual computer.

Show threadShane CelisNov 16, 2023
@mike GUS, wearing a tie meme: I compartmentalize my problems. You containerize your problems. We are not the same.
Show threadjohn spurlingNov 16, 2023

@mike The ethical slide started with separating processes into different address spaces.

Fun fact: all threads in the Danger OS ran in the same virtual machine! It was J*va bytecode, but still... Tagging @swetland in case he wants to chime in.

Show thread[⊨-144254][T-01-03-120] "Naya"Nov 16, 2023
@mike I prefer to call it "Sandbox" instead of container. They are happy in there!
Show threadCalicosineNov 16, 2023

@mike "Abolish prisons" includes FreeBSD and fail2ban jails.

(/s)

Show threadleyrerNov 16, 2023
@mike 👀 @stoeps @
Show threadsergio_101 has moved!Nov 16, 2023
@mike the best is to fire up a container with no open ports.. so data can get neither in nor out
Show threadBartiNov 16, 2023
@haui
Show threadBen CarsonNov 16, 2023
@mike I got rid of endpoint protection, firewalls and user-level accounts on my network so that software could roam freely. I saw a Qakbot the other day and I thought “Yes, Nature is healing.”
Show threadTom NealonNov 17, 2023
@mike that's what I do! No I'm not going to tell you how many pythons I have installed.
Show threadJens W. KleinNov 17, 2023
@mike agree, additionally it leads to all this microservice waste flowing down our data streams...
Show threadlizzy  Nov 17, 2023
@mike i only put programs in containers if they misbehave. anything else is inhumane
Show threadFabio RomeoNov 17, 2023
@mike glad to see a fellow thinker, I only consume free range software without artificial additives like GUIs. They're addictive (hence the name additives) and causes both the machine and the poor code unduly suffering.
Show threadblaue_FledermausNov 17, 2023
@mike
Didn't they film a documentary about this in 1982?
Show threadEllieNov 18, 2023
@mike memory safety was a mistake. In this eSsay I wikki(((((((&&000000000000000
Show threadKendall McGigglesNov 19, 2023
@mike stop “deploying” software. The software will ship when it’s good and ready and prematurely sending out in to the production leads to immature software, billions of dollars of taxpayer money needed to clean up the mess, and an entire industry built to support the therapy needed by that software rocrecover from being deployed before fully ready.
Show threadsynlogicNov 19, 2023

@mike this post deserves to go...

*turns around and takes off sunglasses*

... viral

Show threadBill SeitzNov 26, 2023
@mike restarting is murder
https://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/01/pinocchio-problem.html?m=1
Stevey's Blog Rants: The Pinocchio Problem

Show threadsqrt(-1)Nov 26, 2023
@mike
Show threadMarco van den HoutNov 27, 2023
@mike wait until you hear about ‘memory management units’…
Show threadCrazy-to-Bike :Firefish:Nov 27, 2023
@mike

What's your problem 🤔🤷
Show threadAndrew WalsheDec 7, 2023
@mike The Free Range Software Movement starts here.
Show threadKeith WilsonDec 7, 2023
@mike Isn’t this the plot of Tron? 😏
Show threadmx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)Oct 12, 2024
@mike we have been saying this
Show threadDark Sage Torunka Oct 14, 2024
@mike If Stallman had written a line of code after the 2000s he'd probably actually believe this.
Show threadlizzy مثلية الله ☭  Oct 25, 2024
@mike I use docker only when programs misbehave and don't work. It's a punishment
Show threadNicroOct 25, 2024
@mike I'd argue it's more humane to give each program their own uncontested territory, with limited but reliable resources. Some programs simply take all they are given and would prey on other programs on a shared system, if set free. As the intelligent administrator, one needs to facilitate co-existence on the system despite a programs individual primal nature.