Re: smart stuff
I have run into a number of conversations where it becomes clear that to some folks, they really don't give a crap about what would happen if they need someone else to take over their house/thing/whatever.
As an example: people who have driven Teslas and then drive a Hyundai EV are finding it infuriating that you have to tell the car every time you get in it that you want it to engage one-pedal driving. It will not stay on.
I actually think that makes perfect sense.
If for whatever reason I need someone else to drive my car, whether that be in an emergency, to help me out, or even like valet parking if I have to do that somewhere, I would rather it behave like a normal car.
I don't think it's much of an ask for me to have to squeeze the left paddle every time I turn it on to turn on one pedal driving. But some other folks really really hate that, and in fact one person told me "who cares about other people driving my car?"
Well, I do!
I think in many facets of life we need to remind ourselves to think through things from other perspectives.
What works for you may not work for other people, and that's totally okay! And what seems insane to you might seem completely practical to somebody else.
@Archie8 short answer: The throttle pedal input is remapped so that the top quarter of it is a braking input. Letting off the accelerator will cause the car to slow rapidly and come to a stop using regenerative braking.
Longer video-based answer is below. And good news, they fixed the brake lights
@thatfrogue @Archie8 indeed! Consumer Reports picked up my video, confirmed my testing, and talked with Hyundai and Kia.
They got them to issue a field service campaign and cars are getting updated every time they get brought into the dealership. The new software is exactly as I would expect it to work.
@Archie8 @TechConnectify
As someone with a car that offers "one-pedal driving" and had opted to use it: I vastly prefer it, but it did take some getting used to in order to develop a feel for how hard it will brake if I fully lift my foot from the accelerator. Zero pressure does not equal "full braking" or indeed even "full regen braking" but it will decelerate at a reasonable rate for probably the 90th percentile of driving use-cases. For panic-stops and cut-ins and the like I still have the option of the brake pedal which still works as expected with the added benefit of the car already actively slowing down in that moment when my foot is moving from one pedal to the other.
Even in my adaptation period, there was no "lurching" per se. I think the worst would be slowing down earlier than optimal for an upcoming turn or intersection but nothing truly disruptive to traffic behind me.
@TechConnectify You're absolutely right, what works badly still works, and might fit into their world-view better. Even if it makes you throw up a little! Just keep your mouth shut.
@TechConnectify This. This is something I'm constantly trying to remind people about in software. For users, for other developers, and for future you who is in an unexpected situation.
Defaults are first and foremost for the least capable and experienced user, and only secondly for the common use case. Power users can and will make active choices and change settings.
@reiterator @ConnertheCat look, it's okay for you to disagree. But the thing that is more important to me is that, if for some reason I need someone to drive my car to get me out of a jam, I want them to be able to sit down and operate it as if it were any other car.
Perhaps as one pedal driving proliferates this won't be an issue anymore, but I still find it very unsettling when I get in a car, put it in drive, and it doesn't move when I let off the brake.
@reiterator @ConnertheCat as far as I'm concerned, if there is a way for you to configure your car such that someone in an emergency can't get it to move immediately or otherwise becomes confused by the way it's operating, that is in fact bad.
Complaining in the name of "freedom of ownership" of whatever that you have to squeeze a pedal or push a button one time when you start the car is like the very definition of making a mountain out of a molehill.
@reiterator @TechConnectify Most manuals I've seen (as a driver of one for 15 years) tend to be very obvious that they are one. The issue with one pedal drive is that it's invisible to someone just stepping into the car.
Now, if there was simply no brake pedal _at all_; I could come around to that idea.
@TechConnectify I feel a lot of this conflict in nerd spaces is from us convincing ourselves we’ve minmaxed the “right” way to be. We found the thing the categorical imperative dictates. We behave the way we think everyone should, given the state of things. When others say “what about this way” the reaction is to say “that’s not the optimal one”. Except we don’t say that, we denigrate, deflect, etc.
Your struggles on here have made this dynamic very apparent.
@jason I think part of it is that many of us come from the world of science (or academia in general), and the scientific method is all about "well-actually". The problem is that most people haven't consented to that environment of constant criticism, which, while it is very effective at optimising specific quantities, does not always lead to social harmony. :)
It's the intersection on the Venn diagram between neurodivergent folk who are well-meaning but have innate difficulty empathizing/relating with others, and people who are into nerdy things.
I exist in that intersection, and at nearly 40 years old, I look back at my legacy on Usenet, IRC, forum posts, and now Twitter/masto, I see a lot of exactly what you describe.
I'm probably still like that, but I try not to be, I swear!! 😅
@TechConnectify I asked (what I thought was) a simple question about alarm clock apps in my UX class - what should be the "easier" button to hit - snooze or off?
Ended up as a 10 min class discussion with no progress to agreement, and each half of the class thinking the other half was nuts.
The attributes people value in things really vary.
@TechConnectify While I agree with you on things like i-Pedal, there's definitely way more problems with their current VCU platform that needs work because it's confusing.
But they may not invest a lot more into fixing these kinds of things and advancing it on their current software base, because they're working on implementing Nvidia DRIVE.
We'll see, I guess.
@becomethewaifu ah, I have a somewhere-in-the middle take.
I want automatic headlights to be mandatory, but I also want every car to have GM's implementation.
In GM cars for the past 10 plus years, the headlight switch has four positions:
OFF
AUTO
PARKING
ON
And here's the best part: you cannot leave the switch in off. It is spring loaded and will go back to auto. This allows you to shut the headlights off if you wish, but the next time you turn on the car they will be back in auto mode.
@becomethewaifu now that I have a Hyundai, where you can leave the switch in off, I am finding that every time I take my car in for service the technicians turn the headlights off.
And that usually means, because I typically don't think about the headlights, I end up driving around somewhere for a while wondering why the heck the headlights aren't on.
GM sometimes gets things right, and this is one of those times
@becomethewaifu oof, yeah, don't get me started on that.
I really dislike the idea that the car comes on automatically when you sit down and press the brake. I don't want it making that decision for me, and it makes other things, like leaving the HVAC on for a passenger, harder.
"But what about dog mode?" the Tesla stans remind me.
It's one button. One button among the open door, sit down, close door, buckle seat belt sequence.
It's one button.
@TechConnectify @becomethewaifu
I drive a Jeep Gladiator and see the same over-the-top anger about the auto start-stop. It doesn't bother me a bit, but boy do people hate it, and they'll rant about how they have to disable it every time they get in, or list you all the various hacks you can use to permanently disable it... it's one button.
The GM headlight thing is brilliant, I hadn't heard of that! The last GM I was in was a rental that, inexplicably, didn't have an interior cabin light.
@TechConnectify @becomethewaifu not just that, but things like "dog mode" or "control presets" or various other things are not stuff you'd be fiddling with at speed. This is the ideal things to put into the touchscreen (assuming you've already made the dumb decision to let the touchscreen control real automotive features and not just infotainment).
A homescreen shortcut bar of "Martin's driving style (1-pedal sporty)" and "dog mode" and "Wifey's driving style" would make sense.
@TechConnectify I think a better solution would be to do like Tesla does when using the phone to unlock, but defaulting to normal car mode when using the card key. (Since you're much more likely to give your friend a key than your phone.) Or maybe just have a spare "friend" keycard that sets all defaults.
My wife hates one pedal driving, but our model 3 is very good at seamlessly giving each of us what we want. I admit I don't know if it does one-pedal when I give a valet the card.
@TechConnectify If I didn't already have one, the owner's antics would be a much bigger friction point for me.
Want to buy a Tesla? I'm trying to talk my wife into letting me be an early adopter: https://aptera.us
@ucblockhead unfortunately for you, very much no.
I am beyond pleased with my Ioniq 5 and I can't see selling it for any reason.
@TechConnectify My part in this conversation is academic - I'm an electrical engineer who has designed HMIs (human-machine interfaces) for a few industrial machines, so I have to think about that stuff. There's a balance between safe/expected defaults and not wasting time.
Not having driven an EV I'm not sure how 1-pedal would feel to me, but I'm sure the majority of North America feels something is wrong with my car with three pedals! 😂 I find automatic transmission "creep" very bothersome!
@evilspoons ah. If you're used to manuals, creep probably does seem unsettling.
But let me try to change your mind! I find the car creeping in reverse to be so so so much safer than any other paradigm. Why? Because you have to hold down the brake pedal to *keep* it from creeping
That means your foot is *always* touching the thing which will stop the car instantly, and you're modulating how much you *don't* let it move.
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