Dixzy
Chris KendallFor fucking fuck’s sake, whose genius idea was it to put the wolf in charge of the sheep’s emergency anti-predator conference?? Our civilisation is completely doomed. Sorry kids.
Pepijn Schmitz
Matthew Abbott@captainchaos @hannu_ikonen @ottocrat I remember a week ago, when Biden announced he was skipping COP28, multiple newspapers (and a few mastodon users) saying this complicated his climate credentials or proved he didn’t give a shit about the climate.
Maybe his staff had simply done cursory research into the current leadership…
@matt Chairing doesn’t mean leading. The UN process is the only one we’ve got so we have to make it work. Leaving it to the oil barons to run it won’t save us.
@ottocrat Chairing *does* mean leading. It doesn’t mean unilateral control, but chairs set agendas, pursuant to any limitations set by previous bylaws, and have a large influence on proceedings.
Either way, the US was not absent from the conference. We sent a whole delegation, including our Envoy for Climate. The only thing Biden’s presence would have added here is photos of him shaking this guy’s hand.
Ms. Peg
FediThing 
The decision was made by the governments of the Asia Pacific region, apparently... 🤔
Aral Balkan@ottocrat Alt text: Screenshot of headline from The Guardian with photo of Cop28 president:
Cop28 president says there is ‘no science’ behind demands for phase-out of fossil fuels.
🇸🇭🇮
@ottocrat ACAB applies to Cop28
Philippe Jadin@ottocrat cop in Dubaï... What could go wrong? 😅
Jackzero@ottocrat he who controls the wealth controls the narrative.
Bob Jamieson@ottocrat Because fascism, controlled by corporate interests is the new world order.
British Tech Guru@ottocrat Hang on... Have you heard the entirety of his speech?
I have not either but the snippet that I have read does make sense.
I will paraphrase - he is not saying that we should do nothing. He is saying that we need some fossil fuels while the world transitions to other power sources. He is saying there is no science that says "turn the oil off now and we'll be fine". He's saying that if we do that, we'll be living in caves again.
The blasted journalists have twisted his every word in order to create a self-righteous social media storm.
mark@britishtechguru @ottocrat just because we don't know if things will be suddenly perfect I'd we turn off oil now, does not mean that we aren't scientifically certain that if we keep burning oil we are fucked.
It's a perspective difference. We may not be able to fix things, but we certainly can keep digging ourselves into a bigger problem.
ekes@ATLeagle
@britishtechguru @ottocrat
We most certainly know that everything will fucked if we turned off oil now.
Do you really think it's solely OPEC+ that forces the rest of the world to use oil? And coal.
There's a reason why people demanded to start transitioning half a century ago.
We're two steps closer to fascism just because Europe had to reduce it's gas imports from Russia.
A faster phase-out is certainly possible and necessary but it is by no means easy to pay the price.
chidi_anagonyeDoomerism is a useless ideology. Most people support policies to reduce emissions. Doomerism is even better for emitters than the deniers. With doomers, the bad actors don't even need to come up with any clever rhetoric. It gives permission to consume as normal. We aren't doomed yet, but we will be if this doomer attitude spreads. If you doomers would put the same effort into getting involved politically as you do spreading despair, we would see better results.
@chidi_anagonye @ottocrat @ATLeagle
I'm not 100% convinced by all these climate arguments.
I will say that:
Less soot in the air makes the air more breathable
Less plastics dumped makes the landscape more beautiful
Our biggest problem is our addiction to technology. We all want the latest, best,, brightest gizmos which means the old gizmos go to landfiill.
Forget recycling - that for many things - is sheer nonsense. Nobody can make a profit from recycling many things which is why some or more of the content of most well-intentioned recycling bins ends up in the developing world.
We need to get people working from home and from shared facilities nearby. Reduce the need for travel to work.
Eliminate the fashion industry that each year scams people out of millions for clothes they wear only for one season then discard (and which cannot be recycled).
DoubleTreble 🥰🇵🇸🌍🇺🇦😺💚🧶🫖@britishtechguru @chidi_anagonye @ottocrat @ATLeagle
We need to re-use and repair more, the old addage 'make do and mend' comes to mind!!
We need to re-use and repair more, the old addage 'make do and mend' comes to mind!!
WallOffTrump@britishtechguru @chidi_anagonye @ottocrat @ATLeagle
This post uses the term "developing world". A very misleading term as it mostly describes areas with much longer histories of civilization. The reason these areas struggle is not because the haven't caught up but because they've been wearing out their resources for centuries longer. The poor parts of the world aren't our past - they are our future if we don't moderate our consumption.
@davidarnell @chidi_anagonye @ottocrat @ATLeagle I used the term developing world because 3rd world is apparently in some way offensive
@britishtechguru @chidi_anagonye @ottocrat @ATLeagle
And your post was smart and insightful. Your use of the term didn’t detract from that. I’ve just been looking for a chance to address my little bug about history.
And your post was smart and insightful. Your use of the term didn’t detract from that. I’ve just been looking for a chance to address my little bug about history.
The world is in huge trouble, there is no time for the "let's hear him out" stuff. His words are meaningless whatever they are, because they will never be connected to meaningful actions.
He's the head of an oil company (the Abu Dhabi National Oil Co) 😞
Simply having the head of an oil company from a country dependent on oil running talks on fighting climate change is terrifying lunacy.
He is the problem, the company he is in charge of is the problem, he shouldn't be anywhere near such talks.
Éric@FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat What do you think would happen if we turn off like 90% of oil production in a year ?
It will greatly reduce greenhouse gas creation, that's for sure, as hundreds of millions at least will die.
To combat climate change, we need to be to fight hard against emissions. But I don't think advocating for killing so many people, starting with some of the poorest, will receive much support. Do you ?
GrayGooGlitch 
@gileri
That is the most disingenuous thing I've seen all week. No one is advocating for that position. The only argument being made here is that someone with obvious conflicts of interest has no business being in charge.
@FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat
That is the most disingenuous thing I've seen all week. No one is advocating for that position. The only argument being made here is that someone with obvious conflicts of interest has no business being in charge.
@FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat
@GrayGooGirl @FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat
Can you share the extract in question instead of a clickbait title ? I answered about the possibility that this extract does not match what was said, but would love to be corrected.
Everyone knows about this conflict of interest. Only you make it look like some don't understand that. Talk about disingenuous...
Besides, do you know any country or org which does not profit from petrol extraction ? Producers are only one side of the coin.
@GrayGooGirl @FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat
We ("north" countries) all profit from fossil fuel, at the expense of areas and people more exposed to climate change, and future people, and more globally the biosphere.
Pointing fingers towards the producers and conveniently forget that we have as much, if not more responsibility as consumers (globally, but also individually) seems not really productive.
@gileri @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat
It's not about pointing the finger, it's about phasing out fossil fuels.
It doesn't matter who is blamed, as long as fossil fuel use goes down as quickly as possible.
Countries that depend on fossil fuel sales want exactly the opposite, they want fossil fuel use to expand:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/27/revealed-saudi-arabia-plan-poor-countries-oil
@FediThing @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat Maybe my point would be better understood with an example : Do you think the USA being in charge of the COP would be really better ? Or Italy ? Or Brazil ? China ?
The conflict of interest is global. It's an interdependency. They can't live without exporting petroleum, we can't live without importing petroleum.
Focalizing the attention on the producer is at best a mistake, at worst an intentional misdirection to shift the blame.
@gileri @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat
We can live without petroleum, if we build the alternatives.
There are many alternatives to fossil fuels, we need to be moving to them as quickly as possible.
For example, last month Portugal generated more electricity from renewables than it needed:
Fossil fuel producers hate to see this happening, because a reduced dependency diminishes the value of their fossil fuels.
@FediThing @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat
We need to be almost petroleum-free. We may be in tens of years, but we are not.
Here is a more useful information about electricity production : https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity?tab=chart&country=PRT~FRA~DEU
@FediThing @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat Ok exactly those points were made by Al Jaber in the article :
@gileri @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat
Producers of fossil fuels are the ones most dependent on fossil fuel sales.
Manufacturers further down the chain can use energy from a variety of sources (nuclear, solar, wind etc), they don't have to use fossil fuels.
Putting people most dependent on fossil fuel sales in charge of phasing out fossil fuels is crazy. It makes no sense at all.
@FediThing @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat
I think it does. They have resources in their ground, convincing them to not exploit them is a huge diplomacy challenge.
We are hugely dependent on (and profit from) petroleum for energy, transport, and fertilizers/pesticides. We need to quickly shift to clean sources and reduce consumption for those, but the last one listed is pretty tough.
@gileri @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat
We need to walk away from our dependency on oil from them or anyone else.
We need to stop buying their oil, we need to be using non-fossil alternatives.
But the makers of oil are not going to be supportive of us if we choose to walk away from oil. It would mean their resources' value would decrease, and their countries would get poorer. In many cases it would also mean regimes collapsing as they would no longer have enough oil money to keep their populations quiet.
@gileri @GrayGooGirl @britishtechguru @ottocrat
The rich world is addicted to oil, and the oil dealer is the wrong person to get you off that addiction.
@gileri
I didn't share fucking anything. Fedithing stated a point that there was a conflict of interest and you argued well beyond that to a position where disagreeing with you was tacit endorsement of millions of deaths. Again, that's manipulative and disingenuous. My personal position on this was never stated.
@FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat
I didn't share fucking anything. Fedithing stated a point that there was a conflict of interest and you argued well beyond that to a position where disagreeing with you was tacit endorsement of millions of deaths. Again, that's manipulative and disingenuous. My personal position on this was never stated.
@FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat
@GrayGooGirl @FediThing @britishtechguru @ottocrat My bad, I thought you were OP. I didn't presume of your intentions, just commenting on the hypothetical plan to phase out almost all fossil fuel consumption in 1-10 years that your message seem to suggest is possible. Please correct me if that's not what you meant.
@gileri You’re reading an awful lot into a snarky comment about wolves and sheep. I was sharing the headline and my emotional reaction to it, not a 20,000 blog post on the economics of phasing out fossil fuels.
@gileri @britishtechguru @ottocrat
You're kind of missing the point of my post: it is insane to put an oil company CEO from an oil-dependent country in charge of talks to phase out oil.
His job, and his entire country's wealth, depends on as many people as possible using as much oil as possible.
As you say, we are in an awful situation where the phaseouts are becoming increasingly difficult to do, but the longer we leave it the more difficult the phaseout becomes.
Lots and lots and lots of people will die if we don't phase out fossil fuels as quickly as possible.
@britishtechguru @ottocrat
I’m pretty sure you've heard the phrase “conflict of interest”. Now, recheck who he is. Internalise the message. And finally, you might find that, by taking a position of impartiality, someone else tries to create “a self-righteousness” persona.
I’m pretty sure you've heard the phrase “conflict of interest”. Now, recheck who he is. Internalise the message. And finally, you might find that, by taking a position of impartiality, someone else tries to create “a self-righteousness” persona.
Theodrake@britishtechguru haven't found it yet but from last April here is a more nuanced take(I believe it to be): https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/world/berlin-climate-conference-cop28-fossil-fuels-intl/index.html
Andy4Future@britishtechguru @ottocrat hang on, he is openly ignoring climate science, and you think it is „ok“?
byte 
-> @@ottocrat before that, terrorist states of ruzzia and iran were heads of UN's human rights council, so yeah.. and it happened after ruzzia started the genocidal war too
I tried to look up why UAE were hosting COP28, this was the only answer I could find:
"This year, it was the Asia-Pacific group’s turn to host, and the United Arab Emirates made an unopposed bid in May 2021."
...no government at all in the entire Asia-Pacific region opposed climate talks being run by an actual oil company CEO? 🤔
What is going on?
This is why @gretathunberg shouts about this being just greenwashing, because that's exactly what it seems to be.
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK@FediThing @ottocrat @gretathunberg
I wonder if many countries see hosting it as a millstone around their neck (it must have horrendous security costs for one thing) and didn't want to bid especially with an ongoing pandemic?
TBH why even have it at all in this manner, when there are so many electronic communications methods? particularly if it is just hijacked by fossil fuel industry...
@vfrmedia @ottocrat @gretathunberg
That might be true, but if so it shows how low down the list of priorities climate change is if governments are even considering the costs of hosting it... 😞
Are our current governments just totally unable to grasp concept of long term threats?
@FediThing @ottocrat @gretathunberg
TBH I think govts are aware of long term threats but want to deal with them on a nationalist/individualist basis rather than at UN level (a case in point is Indonesia, which is relocating its entire government out of Jakarta as the country is actually sinking due to climate change), but at the same time the Middle East and Asia are heavily dependent on fossil fuels (and neoliberalism)
@vfrmedia @ottocrat @gretathunberg
They must surely know national-only action won't work long term though? The planet would still fry, there would still be wars over resources etc.
@FediThing @ottocrat @gretathunberg
there's a certain amount of co-operation across nation state boundaries by organisations such as ASEAN, the EU etc, but there are still too many racial/cultural/faith boundaries and a big divide between the Global South and the rest of the World, which isn't helped by existing conflicts in Europe and the Middle East..
Rupert 🇪🇺🏴☠️😾🔭📷🍺🍪🌍🔥@FediThing @vfrmedia @ottocrat @gretathunberg anything after the next election is irrelevant, save their pension
@rupertcutler @vfrmedia @ottocrat @gretathunberg
They are going to have to live on this planet though, they do realise that don't they? And what about their kids?
Gatekeeper..@ottocrat
Fucking sham...Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs
Fucking sham...Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs
@ottocrat
Who could have guessed this whole thing would be a giant shit show?
Who could have guessed this whole thing would be a giant shit show?
rocaverde@ottocrat can he just be kicked out for unethical impersonation?
curlygrey@ottocrat it is scary what is about to come. People are having trouble making ends meet now, everything will get more expensive.
xs4me2It’s beyond irony…
Nazani@ottocrat Other nations were willing to go along with it because protestors can't get to Dubai.
Hans-Cees 🍋🌲🦔🦦🐝🦋🐛🚅🇸🇳🇵🇾🇹🇬🇹🇲
anlomedad