Dear Microsoft. Here is a list of things I want the Start Menu to do:

* Show my installed programs
* Search my local files
* Provide access to system settings

Here is a list of things I do *not* want the Start Menu to do:

* Show the weather for a randomly-selected town near my network's public IP infrastructure
* Show tabloid headlines
* Show programs I *don't* have installed
* Search the web via Bing
* Show adverts(!)
* Attempt to engage me in conversation with a hallucinating LLM

Thanks.

Why yes, I have been having to handle a Windows 10/11 system today, why do you ask?
@ghalfacree
I'm so sorry to hear that. I'll raise a pint for you later. 😉
@ghalfacree What bothers the heck out of me is I KNOW there are people thinking those items are REALLY COOL😬​

@ghalfacree

I moved to Ubuntu the day Bill Gates decided my version of Windows needed to be upgraded. He chose to upgrade the very moment the webinar I was leading started, leading 30+ participants hanging there, wondering what was happening.

I have never regretted deciding that my laptop belongs to me and not to that multi-billionaire.

@NovaNaturalist I moved to Linux approaching three decades ago, back when it was *really* important you knew the refresh rates of your CRT monitor or you'd risk blowing the flyback transformer with a bad X config entry...

I don't miss Windows, but I also don't miss that!

@ghalfacree thankfully I remember DOS so the Ubuntu terminal didn't terrify me. But things have got even better since I made the switch in 2016.
@ghalfacree @DelilahTech @NovaNaturalist LOL I was *so scared* about adjusting mode lines after that one apocryphal story about the guy with the imploding CRT!
@ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist my first foray was about 25 years ago. It's so much easier now.
@ghalfacree
Oh gosh yeah! I forgot all about that but yes, creating an X config in those days was nightmarish @NovaNaturalist
@ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist @pjakobs Ahh, why? Just restart XF86Setup 30 times over and over until it finally grants at least non-accelerated VESA modes on your barely compatible graphics card. 😁

Way back, I found myself more sensitive to flicker than most. So I hand-crafted my X configuration to trade resolution for refresh rate. (Of course, reading the monitor spec.) Personally, I loved the ability to personalize my experience!

@elosha @ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist @pjakobs

@dj3ei @elosha @ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist @pjakobs oh I remember the computer labs full of CRTs flickering at 65 Hz, lit with cheap overhead fluorescent tubes flickering at 120 Hz for a 5 Hz "beat note".
@dragonfrog @dj3ei @elosha @ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist @pjakobs O I remember those days and the strange headaches they induced... now reading this, it feels like a draft from the first page of Neuromancer.
@ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist Those were the days; I don't miss them at all. Glad Slackware is still kicking though :)

@ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist

the refresh rate of the monitor, i remember the first time i was setting it! I was worried to break my monitor (since i was told that a wrong refresh rate could cause damage to the monitor).

Btw what @NovaNaturalist you are asking, is basically what the start menu was originally supposed to do! But yeah i moved to linux 20 years ago, and well my life has been much better since then! I think last windows i had installed for dual boot was windows 7! :)

@ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist I should have noted down the date I deleted Windows 98 from dual boot and went fully Debian. It must have been around 2003.
@ghalfacree @NovaNaturalist When I started, there was already some tool for modeline detection ...

@NovaNaturalist the "I do what I want when I want to" aspect of the Windows Update mechanism is by far the leading negative selling point for me when it comes to that godforsaken OS. absolutely unconscionable. totally unacceptable. never again.

I am so fucking glad I haven't used Windows for more than about 30 minutes a handful of times since 2008. @ghalfacree

@deutrino @NovaNaturalist @ghalfacree Funny enough, forced update (not upgrade) is actually one of the few "recent" decisions in Windows I agree with: a lot of users never reboot nor update, and with Windows' track record on security, this puts them and surroundings at risk.

I don't agree with the oft decried "shutdown randomly" method, but provided the user has been warned repeatedly, and given the option to shutdown with or without update, it can be warranted given the consequences.
1/3

@deutrino @NovaNaturalist @ghalfacree Windows has never been my main platform, but I do use it daily (until gaming on Linux becomes yet a bit better), and have done so for the last 10 years: never was my computer turned off unexpectedly, and since I generally opt for "update and shutdown" when the option is available, I've always been able to take the no-update route when I needed to.
2/3

@deutrino @NovaNaturalist @ghalfacree In the end, one could argue that with these mechanisms in place, the people who get struck by the hammer of forced shutdown (which I've yet to witness) are exactly the people who would stay vulnerable "forever" otherwise.

And while I agree it's your PC, that PC doesn't live in a vacuum.

Could the system be improved? Possibly.
Is it within the top worst things about windows?
"Not even close", I'd argue; despite how annoying it can be.
3/3

@fox_phd @deutrino @NovaNaturalist @ghalfacree there's no evidence that there's currently a way for Microsoft to do it without shutting down randomly, though. Windows has MANY things that only get fully reloaded on reboot. even Linux needs a reboot to load a new kernel generally (modulo Kernel Live Patching).
@fox_phd @deutrino @NovaNaturalist @ghalfacree a forced update is ok when the update is fixing things. Windows update (re)installing whatever crap MS managers compete for internally is the reality and the problem. Ubuntu advantage steered that way for a bit and thankfully went back again to using only covert promotions of crap after hearing it from the community.

@NovaNaturalist @ghalfacree back before win95 shipped, I stumbled upon Linux.

I decided I wouldn't be upgrading from WFW and instead taking my chances on a then-new-to-me system.

Absolutely no regrets. I'm surprised how easy it was to keep Windows out of my dominion.

(definitely not missing having to recompile the kernel to have sound, though.)

@ghalfacree I’m sorry. I know the feeling. Hang in there, it’ll be over soon.

@ghalfacree I charge clients $150 to remove and reinstall windows on a laptop.

I'll Remove windows and install Linux for free.

@ghalfacree I’ve had a couple of family calls asking for help because of that, just after they updated to W11, mostly because they are used to search for local data in the menu, and now it looks on the internet and all the other unnecessary things you just mentioned

@alvariviris It's possible to strip it all out - I've got a Windows 11 laptop with no ads, no web search, no LLM, no weather, no news - but it's not easy. I spent an entire afternoon getting mine to that point!

@ghalfacree @alvariviris

That process would make a good article, and I would read it. Not that I need it, I don't use Windows any more since retiring, but from what I've heard about Windows 11, I suspect a lot of people need the information.

@NormanDunbar @alvariviris Only trouble is, it's short-lived. One of the reasons it took so long is half the solutions out there - like disconnecting the NIC to force the creation of a local user account during installation, or using a shortcut key to bring up a command prompt during the setup wizard - don't work any more, as Microsoft keeps tweaking the OS to block 'em.

@ghalfacree @alvariviris

Hmmm. This is not good. Not good at all.

Thankfully, I only use Linux and Raspberry Pi these days. Obvioulsy, for your job, that's not an option.

Good luck!

Cheers.

@NormanDunbar @alvariviris ...I haven't used Windows for work since Windows 2000 was the new hotness. I run an entirely open-source software stack, except when a client wants something submitted as a Google Doc!

@ghalfacree @alvariviris

I keep an old Win 7 "virtual box" lying around for the times I inadvertently update the software on my HP multi function printer, and discover that it will no longer let me print with non-HP cartridges.

I need Windows to revert the software to an earlier version that doesn't care what cartridges are used. Other than that, there are no windows in this house! 😉

@NormanDunbar
You should reconsider. Natural light is very good
@ghalfacree @alvariviris
@phi1997
I'm a Scotsman. We are easily burned, so we are not allowed out in daylight! 😉
@ghalfacree @alvariviris

@NormanDunbar @ghalfacree @alvariviris
First time ever I read about Windows as a hacker tool. 👍
Maybe caused by the fact that I stopped using an HP printer some 15 years ago and gave up on Canon ink printers about 5 years later.

When I *buy* something I fucking hate it to be owned by the producer.

@ghalfacree @NormanDunbar @alvariviris
I was a long-time Windows user from 3.1 days, but when Windows 8 arrived, I was done.
Zero respect for customers.
@MrLee @ghalfacree @NormanDunbar @alvariviris The first time I saw Windows 8 I thought the installation was borked. Oh the feeling of disgust that washed over me once I understood what I was seeing was intentional


@ghalfacree @NormanDunbar @alvariviris Indeed. I recently installed a win11 laptop, armed with these tricks. And they no longer worked.

I was very happy with a customised iso that day.

@ghalfacree @NormanDunbar @alvariviris Really? When did they do that? I feel like I did that not very long ago at all.
@jhannafin @NormanDunbar @alvariviris It didn't work when I set up the new Designated Windows Machine here, which was... well, I bought it second-hand in mid-August, so I guess mid-to-late August?
@ghalfacree @NormanDunbar @alvariviris I got through several updates already with windows still not logged in and zero ads. I can even install stuff from their store while not logged in lol. And there's articles about this, though I don't remember where I read the walkthrough for what I did.

@ghalfacree @alvariviris

ah this is sad news, I was gonna ask if this was possible but I am a non-techy (maximum value of "non" there), so I don't think I woud be able to manage that

@ghalfacree @alvariviris make an image of the drive at that point and that’s your new install.
@ghalfacree for real, for real. New Windows features gonna undermine years of convenience and push me to Linux.

@kieranmcguire @ghalfacree They’re making a serious mistake by watering down their operating system.

My gf knows very little about computers, but she can immediately tell her Intel i5 MacBook that she got for work is cleaner and snappier than her new Windows 11 laptop. Part of that is probably because the OS isn’t shite (say what you want about Apple, ya, but MacOS is still decent imo)

@Ferrichrome @kieranmcguire On the contrary, I find macOS worse than Windows in many ways - the BSD base means it's close enough to Linux for me to think I know what I'm doing, but then Apple gets in the way and everything breaks down.

I had a MacBook Air once. *Once*.

@ghalfacree @kieranmcguire Fair enough, lol. I am not techy enough to need command lines and such - I do music and photo editing. I’ve been using computers long enough to know when an interface sucks, thoughđŸ€Ł
@Ferrichrome @kieranmcguire @ghalfacree In January, I bought a new Mac Mini: now on Sonoma. I still have the older Mini, “stuck” on Yosemite.
Yosemite never gives me erroneous messages about removable drives not being ejected properly (when they haven’t been ejected at all).
@vandyke4ad @kieranmcguire @ghalfacree I haven’t had issues with that on my M1 Macbook Pro, although I do think the whole “eject warning” thing is really dumb lol
@kieranmcguire The most well-funded Linux distros (like Ubuntu) have the same issue, so choose wisely.

@ghalfacree "show my installed programs" is the one single thing the start menu should do, you can lose everything else but this. Yet, somehow, in some way, they managed to screw it up. It's like Apple screwing the most basic interaction tool like the keyboard saying "we made it better!"

Sure, it was better: for the company, for the suppliers, for the shareholders. For everyone but the user.

@ghalfacree I have to have a Windows install on my computer for work reasons.

OpenShell is non negotiable

Using Windows without it is pain.

@ghalfacree I got rid of all of those unwanted "features" out of my Start menu by just completely uninstalling Microsoft Edge, including the Edge WebView which all of those extra features rely on (because of course they do – funny how so many of today's anti-features are web-based). Be aware that a normal uninstall of Edge won't remove the WebView component.

----

EDIT: to achieve this, I used Edge_Removal.bat from this repository: https://github.com/AveYo/fox

GitHub - AveYo/fox: Firefox stuff

Firefox stuff. Contribute to AveYo/fox development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
@TerrorBite don't suppose you've a document detailing how to safely accomplish that do you?

@Freakus @TerrorBite
@ghalfacree

If you have a router/firewall that supports it like pfsense, DNS-blocking bing.com solves all of this without even having to screw with Windows. :)

@zetasyanthis @Freakus @ghalfacree update: I had to reinstall WebView2 because the new version of Satisfactory Mod Manager wouldn't work without it.