Mastodawn

Dan Ăla Nov 23, 2023

Strangers offering unsolicited advice or derailing conversations should be familiar to all who use social media. In our new #Mastodon for Android update, we’re testing a new feature aimed to curb these behaviours:

https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/11/improving-the-quality-of-conversations-on-mastodon/

Improving the quality of conversations on Mastodon

In our most recent Mastodon for Android release, we’re testing a new feature aimed to curb unneccesary negativity that comes from being on the Internet.

Mastodon Blog

bmaxv Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon This sounds like a really good idea, I will check it out!

Dagnabbit, Pascaline! 💥Nov 22, 2023

I like this part too 😂

"We also believe that by showing a bit of information about the person you’re about to talk to, we can prevent some awkward situations, such as explaining something to an expert in a given field."

pmroman 🇪🇺Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon And who will certify, or verify, the expertise of each one of us? Besides, folks can talk without been experts, it's called conversation and I thought it was the purpose. Anyway, I forgot we shouldn't interact with people we don't know, my apologies :-)

Julian ♪🌻🥥🌴♫Nov 22, 2023

@pmroman @Mastodon The way I see it, it isn't about not interacting with someone you don't know, but remembering that it's a different thing talking to a stranger in a blunt tone vs. someone who you've already interacted with.

pmroman 🇪🇺Nov 22, 2023

@TFFPrisoner @Mastodon And why would I address you with more, or less, respect than I adresse someone with whom I've exchanged previously? But yes, I get your point.

Steffen Voß Nov 22, 2023

@pmroman @TFFPrisoner @Mastodon Sometimes I forget that I feel like I know someone I follow but that person doesn't know me, because the person doesn't follow me. It's good to be reminded of that before I start a conversation in a too familar tone.
You can still contact everybody and write whatever you want. Simply ignore the reminder or use an app, that doesn't have that feature if you don't like it. I like it.

pmroman 🇪🇺Nov 22, 2023

@kaffeeringe @TFFPrisoner @Mastodon I don't think the feature at discussion justifies changing the application I use, the inclusion of the "expertise" will without doubt.

Julian ♪🌻🥥🌴♫Nov 22, 2023

@kaffeeringe @pmroman @Mastodon You could say it attempts to replace (or remind users of the lack of) the kind of cues you have in direct interaction like facial expression, body language, use of personal space... all of those are missing from online discourse.

pmroman 🇪🇺Nov 22, 2023

@TFFPrisoner @kaffeeringe @Mastodon That's a very good point, it makes sense. However, my main objection was to the "expertise" issue.

Julian ♪🌻🥥🌴♫Nov 22, 2023

@pmroman @kaffeeringe @Mastodon
Yeah, I was just going off the "I forgot we shouldn't interact with people we don't know" part.
Expertise isn't entirely to be dismissed IMO - I think a lot of medical experts were driven to despair by "reply guys" (and girls) trying to tell them that viruses don't exist and similar nonsense. But I do agree that it's a difficult issue. Should people be able to list their credentials?

pmroman 🇪🇺Nov 22, 2023

@TFFPrisoner @kaffeeringe @Mastodon Or willing? Even able? Or safe doing so? Will other tooters feel comfortable? Will the tooter become a target?

hömma Nov 23, 2023

@TFFPrisoner @kaffeeringe @pmroman @Mastodon

so you’re all „strangers“ to me. Should I even dare comment? Let’s say I’m new here, and I get this warning: „Careful, you’re about to talk to a stranger! Wait, that post you want to say something nice about is old and cold!“ Oh, you’re not supposed to do that here? Okay, I can turn the warning off (aka „mark as read & understood“) but…

1/2

hömma Nov 23, 2023

@TFFPrisoner @kaffeeringe @pmroman @Mastodon

… I heard it, and I’ll keep it in mind: don’t do these things. The facial expression and body language of Mastodon would look really unfriendly with this feature.

Trolls & reply guys won’t be bothered, but kind and gentle people will be put off. They already are now, just reading the announcement.
2/2

hannah aubry Nov 23, 2023

@kommaKucken @TFFPrisoner @kaffeeringe @pmroman @Mastodon Of course you should dare comment! As long as it's in good faith and respectful.

I think of myself as a kind and gentle person and I'm thrilled to see these nudges. I think generally, most people don't want to do harm to others, and if they do it's because they weren't being thoughtful. Sometimes people just need a reminder.

Steffen Voß Nov 23, 2023

@kommaKucken @TFFPrisoner @pmroman @Mastodon I don't think, that most people want to be rude. But sometimes it happens, because we read a situtation wrong. I like these nudges. I am afraid, I was regarded a reply guy once or twice. I don't like these situations. And I like that the apps tries to improve conversations.

your_huckleberry Nov 22, 2023

@pmroman yeah, no, apparently you're only supposed to interact with people you agree with. Yay echo chambers!

Michael ヘビ Steinwandter Nov 23, 2023

@pascaline
@Mastodon
This should be implemented into Facebook and Twixxer too... I assume that the majority of Mastodon users have some awareness 🤞

This Is ARTman Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon the reminder that a "conversation is old" is ingenious 👌🏼🎊

Luka Rubinjoni Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon Well, actually...

Paul Houle Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon for every 1 "derailed conversation" I see 10 people who are offended that anybody defaces their masterpiece by replying to it.

People replying to themselves is what what I think started X's descent into hell (the endpoint of that is that you don't need to have a blog, link to the rest of the net, ...) and I think would be must better to "just say no" to that behavior by prohibiting it.

If you wanted to make things better, how about a reply browsing UI that works?

Ghost 🏳️‍🌈Nov 22, 2023

@UP8 @Mastodon The first account I saw with essentially a "don't reply" warning weirded me out. Is that not the point of posting?

Paul Houle Nov 22, 2023

@CapriciousGhost @Mastodon that’s what Twitter was like in 2010 but at some point some people got the idea they own the whole thread; the use of the word “derailed” points to the real problem which is that replies should be tree-structured and not linear so stupid comments can just be a leaf that gets “sidelined”. if they’re not going to ban self-replying a linear self-reply thread should be reified so it always displays as intended

Jennifer Moore 😷Nov 22, 2023

@CapriciousGhost

not necessarily...

goedelchen Nov 22, 2023

@CapriciousGhost @UP8 @Mastodon Depends on the platform. On some, the point of posting is to vomit out the toxic stuff that poisons your brain.

Acetopheles Nov 22, 2023

@UP8 @Mastodon it's that kind of elitest attitude that put me off of using Lemmy altogether.

You're not the only one allowed to have an opinion...
Here is a better idea. Rather than being arrogant and pretending you're the only person entitled to an opinion block/mute people who bother you.

It really is weird though. A platform where it's public I don't know what kind of mindset you need to have to think the way they do. If they want to limit conversations. There are better ways.

Paul Houle Nov 22, 2023

@LillianVS @Mastodon i’m thinking you are using “you” generically in your reply and not to referent to “UP8” (myself) but I am not completely aure

Mind you, I have certainly jumped into the middle of a conversation with a non-productive comment early in my Mastodon experience because the user interface didn’t give me a clear understanding of the context, I am more careful now.

Acetopheles Nov 22, 2023

@UP8 @Mastodon To clarify since the character limit, I am not referring to UP8 but the people who dislike conversations with strangers on a public platform

Paul Houle Nov 22, 2023

@LillianVS @Mastodon I certainly use the block button heavily even for “innocent” behaviors like posting screenshots because screenshots with angry text (1) go viral and (2) evade my keyword filters; I am not going to put a list of block-worthy behaviors in my profile because I don’t want to be another hostile mastodonster who proves it in their profile.

Acetopheles Nov 22, 2023

@UP8 @Mastodon honestly I wouldn't mind seeing people opt for hashtags to be used. Marking things as NSFW, or screenshots like that.

Would mean they get filtered out.
I know it would likely never happen but times like this automation would be pretty handy if they were auto-applied but given the nature of this platform. I don't feel like they'd be comfortable having any sort of AI involvement I guess.

Fluke McHappenstance

@LillianVS @UP8 @Mastodon some folks on mastodon seem to want to be heard but don't want replies back. I think what these folks want is a website without a comments section.

Some folks appear to have a message to deliver that is more important that everything everybody else has to say: those people don't understand and don't belong in social media.

Some people are legitimately harrassed, and that is despicable - I empathize with their plight and hope for a solution to their problems. Other people just believe their message more important than everybody else's - these people are jerks who don't deserve a public megaphone.

Paul Houle Nov 23, 2023

@fluke @LillianVS @Mastodon reminds me of the time I customized PHPnuke to make a social network for a secret society, but maybe Discord fills that niche more than anything else these days

Petra van Cronenburg Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon @Gargron I can already tell you that this feature annoys me so much that I'll change the app.
"New connection" is nice, if you can disable it and when disabled, it makes no more sense.
"Age of post" is exactly the patronising style of Mastodon so many people don't like. Without algorithms, I can answer when I want to older posts. It's my decision and I'm an adult to do it alone. I appreciate that people comment on my older posts so much!
More clicks. It gets more complicated.👎

@NatureMC @Mastodon @Gargron

Just this. You summed it up nicely. I like being able to start a conversation with someone on something that may not be related.

Weird 2 - Electric Boogaloo Nov 23, 2023

@NatureMC @Mastodon @Gargron Here's the thing: Not everyone is like you. I do understand how this will sound condescending to many. On the other hand, there are plenty of people (me included often enough), who either are inattentive, self-absorbed or just in the wrong mood that they reply to things on the worst manner possible.
Being a small inconvenient hurdle is the point! It's trying to force people to pause for a second and maybe reflect before steamrolling with their opinion.

Weird 2 - Electric Boogaloo Nov 23, 2023

@NatureMC @Mastodon @Gargron I'm pretty sure, even you, who's thinking "can't be me!" did this at least sometimes.
I had plenty situations (last week was the most recent), where I wished I had thought through this at least a bit more before sending a reply. Last time even was worse, because I was self-aware of what I was about to do, but failed to make the right decision.
I would profit from this solution.

Cam Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon displaying information about the person being replied to and the old post warnings are really great ideas.

I'm not sure the reminders about post etiquette will do much more than take up screen space, though. Whenever Twitter added something like that, it always came across as performative, i.e. "Well, we've told people to play nice, so we are doing our part!"

McHollander | Celtic Folk Bard Nov 22, 2023

@bitflipped @Mastodon I expect the people that are already mindful of their behaviour to more often elect to not engage, without it deterring the ones who don't in the slightest...

@bitflipped This article in Techcrunch explaining the change has some stats to back-up the way that this change could work to help smooth out some interactions.

It's not going to stop obvious trolls, but it might work to cause some people to pause before sending a terse reply.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/22/mastodon-tackles-the-problem-of-reply-guys-with-its-latest-feature/

Mastodon tackles the problem of 'reply guys' with its latest feature | TechCrunch

Mastodon's latest update is tackling a problem Twitter users know all too well: the scourge of the "reply guys." A colloquial term for the men who

TechCrunch

Cam Nov 22, 2023

@jaymerryfield I can see how popups targeted specifically at something that had been written may be effective in some cases, presumably as it invokes either fear of repercussions or shame, I'm just not sure that a preemptive message will do any good.

Ronsboy67 Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon I hope the "replying to a new person" feature comes to the web and to other clients, like Tusky. I did smile at "we can prevent some awkward situations, such as explaining something to an expert in a given field" - such a wonderfully polite and roundabout way of saying "prevent mansplaining" 😀

‎Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon @Gargron thank you for your work! i have a question: did you consider to establish the option of not allowing replies? this would give the op more power over their post as opposed to nudging other people to reconsider replying.

craftycat Nov 22, 2023

@yaenntz @Mastodon @Gargron I was wondering if that function exists, sad to hear it doesn't. Personally I use social media to be, you know, social, and it'd be nicer if people who want to use it as their personal journal without response could do so on their own, instead of posting snarky shit when someone has the audacity to respond to their public posts.

Eric Etheridge Nov 22, 2023

Whatever, just as as long as Mastondon maintains eternal vigilance against the users who explore profiles in the espionage-style.

Luna Lactea Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon This looks cool!!

@Mastodon oh look @Gargron is also using Duolingo

AliveDevil Nov 22, 2023

@Mastodon happy to derail here to maybe prioritize fixing bugs, instead of feature creeping.

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-ios/issues/396#issuecomment-1313949488

[BUG] GIF images autoplay in timeline · Issue #396 · mastodon/mastodon-ios

Is there an existing issue for this? I have searched the existing issues Current Behavior GIF images are currently set to auto play, which is very distracting/annoying/difficult for me to visually ...

GitHub

Eugen Rochko Nov 22, 2023

@AliveDevil @Mastodon That's a different app. Our update includes bug fixes though, as always.

AliveDevil Nov 22, 2023

@Gargron @Mastodon
In the article there is a mention of the iOS app, so I‘m not far off-topic.

BerlinFokus Nov 22, 2023

@Gargron @AliveDevil @Mastodon

Yes please DO some bugfixes.

After the new update, the "standard" Mastodon Android App is almost unusable.

Something seems to be wrong with the power management on smartphones or so.

I'm no expert but it almost killed my battery.

Which is much more of a "unpleasant experience" to me than strangers trying to explain something (who I can block in the worst case).

👉👈 🥺

AliveDevil Nov 22, 2023

To defend both @Gargron and the android team over at @Mastodon

There is like a gazillion different android devices out there, and not all can be tested - if there is battery drain issues or app crashes without a recent opened or closed ticket looking roughly the same then the chance is high that the issue is either undetected or no one reported it yet.

AliveDevil Nov 22, 2023

Creating a ticket on the Mastodon-Android repository then (with log-details as described in https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-android/issues/741#issuecomment-1820060642 ) should be the first step to get this fixed.
I don't know whether there are any (or good) metrics reported by the play-store - but I can tell from a Microsoft Store-developer perspective some metrics are just unusable.

Unknown - great.

@Gargron @Mastodon

Crashing when tapping my toots · Issue #741 · mastodon/mastodon-android

Latest version 2.2.2 crashes if I tap my toots. I've tried it my TL and My Profile and faced the same bug.

GitHub

BerlinFokus Nov 22, 2023

@AliveDevil @Gargron @Mastodon

Samsung Galaxy XCover 5 is a VERY common smartphone though.

There is a notice on github already, don't know if to all issues, but at least the developers schould know by now something isn't working as it should.

I know mistakes happen and you can't prevent that for 100% but it's just that the situation right now is .. not good.

Gregory Nov 22, 2023

@berlinfokus @Gargron @AliveDevil @Mastodon

App developer here. What do you mean "killed my battery"? Can you please elaborate on the problem you're having? Can you also please make sure you're on the latest version (2.2.3)?

BerlinFokus Nov 22, 2023

@grishka @Gargron @AliveDevil @Mastodon

Guess if I see the "please be polite" notice I have the newest version. (yep it's 2.2.3)

It started by crashing when I tapped on my notifications (in the app), then the OS said the mastodon App is using an awful lot of energy and now I'm being shown this 👇 sign on my phone constantly.

Can't tell you really more, exept the model that I use (thread), because I'm not an App Developer or so.

Gregory Nov 22, 2023

@berlinfokus @Gargron @AliveDevil @Mastodon

Your phone is most probably a Samsung and you turned on a power saving mode. You can turn it off in Settings -> Device care -> Battery -> Power mode. And yes, Samsung's "device care" is stupid because it thinks that if an app is crashing repeatedly, it must be "using a lot of energy".

BerlinFokus Nov 22, 2023

@grishka @Gargron @AliveDevil @Mastodon

Ah okay.

Yes, as I wrote before it's a Samsung Galaxy XCover 5.

So it just assumed that the App is using a lot of energy which it didn't.

I turned that switch you showed on (power saving mode) because OS told me to do so, now I guess I can turn it back off.

Then again my view is that the App shouldn't be crashing repeatedly anyway, don't you think?