nixCraft 🐧still thinking about this one
Moppi@nixCraft
bash scrips are powerfull.
but for more, i only need python.
with out Frameworks
Leo Bistmans
Andreas K@LeoBistmans @moppi @nixCraft
Well, sure, if you have masochistic tendencies?
You do realize that the rule of thumb that code is read at least a magnitude more often than written, is there for a good reason.
Rob@nixCraft The guy with the trolley will be calling on his learned friend soon enough
Anders Eknert@nixCraft I can’t wait to maintain someone’s implementation of Kubernetes written in Bash.
MyForest@anderseknert we wrote k8s in bash in 2015. We made mistakes. It caused problems. It was rocket surgery.
Moving to k8s very much helped make things manageable because there are docs and examples and help available. It is still really hard but there is now a realistic chance others can pitch in and build things in our environment.
@myforest yeah, I have worked in a team where we implemented container orchestration before k8s too, although mostly in Python, and obviously not covering all of what k8s does. We were quite relieved to leave that behind. Standardizing on *something*, even if something complex, is almost always a big win.
cmdrSprocket@anderseknert @myforest I always struggle to decide on which standard to adhere to because some of them end up as a vendor lock in.
Niklas Enns
bassplayer@myforest @anderseknert What were your k8s pain points? Honestly curious.
In my bash script version I was doing multi-region which these days we'd call multi-cluster.
It deployed to Dallas, checked it was OK, then London, checked it was OK and then Sydney.
Except I got a boolean wrong in the check. One day it walked around the planet breaking each data center and moving on to the next one.
If my script was part of something big and well-used (such as k8s) then someone else would have spotted it before me.
@bassplayer I stayed off k8s for a while because it was immature and the team were just getting used to Docker.
It was quite a jump to move to k8s, but the team figured it out along the way and things were great.
Paul Lalonde@anderseknert @nixCraft It seems to take as much bash to manage the K8S installation as it does to do the actual task.
Most distributed applications are smaller than the weight K8S brings on.
Most distributed applications are smaller than the weight K8S brings on.
@anderseknert @nixCraft which is frankly depressing. Because most people include the entire pile of user land in the measure of the OS. And almost nobody strips their kernels or user land down to the minimum. So we keep burning more power than we need to, if only keeping RAM refreshed. The all-in energy cost of large software, even its unused parts, hurts.
Axel Rafn@nixCraft the KISS ruleset is fine to work with =)
(Keep It Simple Stupid)
I'm on the Bash/Sh side myself, got tons of scripts I've made through the years that still do their work fine.
Javier
🪨@nixCraft It's very different use cases. You can't maintain a cluster with just bash, and since it's a pretty slow language you'd have to rely on other tools anyway, so it would be like comparing bash only with Kubernetes only.
< />@nixCraft Nobody needs CSS... Plain curl would be sufficient... No more pain with browsers and accessibility issues...
PassengerBoth of these are going to be maintenance nightmares but in excitingly different ways.
Myza Nil Red@nixCraft Wait until you see my build system.
Khleedril@myzanilred @nixCraft M4 is properly underrated.
ticho@nixCraft Did anyone commenting here stop to think that perhaps they are each trying to solve a different problem?
RF@nixCraft
I dunno, I've seen some pretty horrific bash scripts in prod environments. Had a guy make his own bash framework, that was a fun mess to untangle.
I dunno, I've seen some pretty horrific bash scripts in prod environments. Had a guy make his own bash framework, that was a fun mess to untangle.
𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐯𝐄 🌼@nixCraft thank you for sharing! Yes I made my whole smart home system with bash scripts (on an old raspberry pi) years ago. That's really fun, flexible and reliable up to today.
Kavus
Bsan3@nixCraft with the container would, you need something more than bash ... But it could be a simpler than k8s. Too complicated for most things
⚙ARC@nixCraft guy on the right prolly has jedi robe
@nixCraft every tool whom’s install instructions have bash in them have bent the knee!
Xasin, Neira & Mesh@nixCraft
Literally us at CERN last week. Crumpled together a bash script that executes GHDL test benches.
It even spits out JUnit XML by using hand crafted echo statements, and abuses `touch` and a subdirectory as binary hash map to mark test data.
And it works!
Easy to run anywhere since you really just need bash.
Sure it's an eye-sore, but it's a simple lean functional eye-sore.
Moravian Kaleidoscopy Ltd🇺🇦@nixCraft are they going to a foot-shooting competition? Not sure on who I'd place my bet tbh ...
Owen Tyme@nixCraft Hehe. My new blog ( https://owentyme.us/blog ) was built using BashBlog ( https://github.com/cfenollosa/bashblog ).
unlucio 🌍 
@nixCraft this is stoooopid, it misses the root question:
what problem are your trying to solve?
I can easily send a whole directory to a friend over the internet using tar and netcat, but do I want to make a scalable global file serving facility only with bash scripts? HELL NO! that'd be insane.
The right tool for the right problem.
While there are the occasional "wheel reinventions", usually new technologies come about because the prevues hit a limit.
Will 
@nixCraft I see myself in this cartoon... Shell scripts are awesome but I know sometimes I should be exploring other options...
Ivan Sukin@nixCraft people are afraid that AI will take their jobs, while their jobs could be taken by an awk one-liner
kechpaja
ShawnT 🔧🐀
FRANK.MCCONNEL
nobody
Jim Luther@enhancedscurry I thought the same thing all the time at Apple. In CoreServices, some projects had scripts from half a dozen languages depending on what scripting language someone had just learned.
Damien Sorresso@jimluther I made a conscious decision to write my personal scripts in bash because I was sick of using all these other tools from other orgs that required 80 Python packages that failed to install for mysterious reasons half the time. And when the scripts actually ran, they failed with some obscure Python backtrace the other half of the time.
@jimluther bash also has the advantage of (at Apple) being a dead language. That interpreter is not going to change, so an entire class of breakage just goes away.
@jimluther All that said, as a language, it's brutally terrible. It just happens that it hails from a simpler time, which makes it nice for projects that aren't going to get much maintenance.
@nixCraft
Does Bash not have a logo?
Does Bash not have a logo?
Daniel Quinn@nixCraft I love this. I'm stealing it for my advanced Linux class.
[zlendy@firefish ~]$ 
@nixCraft If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
G🦡Monkey@nixCraft You can make an HTTP application server using nothing but what BusyBox provides... partly because BusyBox provides a decent netcat
ferricoxide
Fennix 
@nixCraft off to the right of the bash guy is me, wearing a clown suit and doing orchestration with Makefiles
neoluddite