Mastodawn

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸

I must preface this with: As long as we have airplanes, all people should be able to fly on an airplane comfortably and safely, period. However, my point is: this also reminds me that if Canada (and North America in general) had a working high speed rail network, it is a mode of transportation that is far more conducive to accessibility and assistive devices.

I recognize trains can't go everywhere planes go (they used to!) and disabled people have the absolute right to expect the same speed and convenience of anyone else (thus this story!). But part of the problem for *everyone* is we simply have no options.

We've thrown all our transportation-eggs into the airplane and cars basket and the air corporations are showing to be particularly evil. The stories emerging from Air Canada and others are horrendous. The companies should be absolutely ashamed.

#Transportation #Canada #CanPoli #CdnPoli #AirTravel #AirCanada #Trains #Rail #DisabilityRights #HumanRights
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-hidden-camera-disabilities-transportation-1.7020175

Hidden cameras capture passenger who uses wheelchair struck by lift on Air Canada flight | CBC News

In light of the federal government summoning Air Canada to Ottawa this week to discuss a spate of reports about the mistreatment of customers in wheelchairs, Marketplace is releasing an exclusive preview of its hidden-camera investigation which documented a rarely seen first-hand account of the challenges faced by those flying with a disability.

CBC

rob Nov 7, 2023

@chris depending on the trip, air travel is not always faster.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@rdmc Very true

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 7, 2023

@chris There should absolutely be accessible, affordable, frequent, electric, Hi Speed Rail from Windsor to Quebec City, with a spar off to Ottawa, at the absolute minimum!

The bs we let airlines get away with is abhorrent.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson 💯

🚲Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @chris One of my controversial opinions is that we should have high speed rail from Toronto to Vancouver.*

* NB, many HSR proponents caveat their opinion with the statement that nobody is proposing HSR from Toronto to Vancouver, to keep the conversation on slam dunk provincial scale corridors

Daigoro Toyama Nov 7, 2023

@dx @ClintonAnderson @chris You're talking about 4,000 km, which would be a 16-hour train ride travelling at an average speed of 250 km/h. Are there any other cities that the HSR can serve between the two? if the railway is primarily for connecting those two cities, I don't think it'd be a feasible idea.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@daihard @dx @ClintonAnderson there are many. Most likely stops would be: Kamloops, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, Sudbury, Toronto. With Calgary and Winnipeg probably being the biggest draws (1000km and 2000km respectively)

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@daihard @dx @ClintonAnderson And I have to add, I think if there was a 16 hour train connection between Vancouver and Toronto, the airplane companies would be ABSOLUTELY SHAKING. I for one might never fly again.

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 7, 2023

@chris @daihard @dx You might be the only one though....

I don't see many people spending 16 hours where they can currently spend 3-4

As recreation, it'd be awesome, sure!

Daigoro Toyama Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @chris @dx When comparing travel time between air and rail, I usually add 3-4 hours to the air travel as you tend to spend extra time at the airports. For instance, the flight time between Tokyo and Osaka is less than an hour, but you spend at least 2 hours to travel to/from the airports, in addition to the extra time needed at the airports. In the meantime, it takes 2.5 hours by bulle train, and the stations tend to be much closer to your home/destination.

Liminally Human Nov 8, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @chris @daihard @dx I've done that flight a number of times and it's generally 6 hours with a layover in Calgary. Yes 16hrs is longer, but it would have far better views plus a lot more freedom to get up and walk around. I think a lot of people would prefer that, especially if it was affordable.

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 8, 2023

@liminally_human @chris @daihard @dx I've never had a layover in Calgary on that flight.....

Daigoro Toyama Nov 7, 2023

@chris @dx @ClintonAnderson Thanks! I'm looking at the map of Canada right now, and you're right, Calgary and Winnipeg can easily fit the bill, and of course the smaller cities along the route, too.

[EDIT] As for the 16-hour train ride, I will also consider it if time isn't of utmost importance. Being from Japan, I'd generally prefer trains over airplanes.

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 7, 2023

@daihard @chris @dx EVERYBODY who cares about the environment, their health, their comfort, prefers trains over planes!

🍻

catch Nov 7, 2023

@daihard @chris @ClintonAnderson @dx apparently maglev can do 500km/hour. How long does the flight take?

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@catch56 @daihard @ClintonAnderson @dx 5 hours

catch Nov 7, 2023

@chris @daihard @ClintonAnderson @dx so if 500km/h is possible and it became an 8 hour ride. If you timed it city centre to city centre including boarding etc. it's getting close.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@catch56 @daihard @ClintonAnderson @dx When you consider the abject hell of airplane travel today, being able to board a train at Pacific Central in Vancouver at 6AM knowing you’d arrive at Union Station in Toronto at 9PM (inc. 3hr time difference) for the same price, there is really no competition. I fear the only thing standing in the way of that reality is a Moose. No really, I fear a Moose standing in the way. But maybe at 500kph it'd just be a blip. 🫎😂😱

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 7, 2023

@chris @catch56 @daihard @dx Can't be for the same price.... Can't even be HALF the price.... It needs to be imminently accessible.

Ideally, it's free.

Just like all Public Transit should be.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @catch56 @daihard @dx I won't say no to that!

🚲Nov 7, 2023

@chris @daihard @ClintonAnderson The Beijing-Guangzhou line in China is 2300 km long with an average speed around 250-300 km/h for the entire journey as far as I can tell.

So it would be a world first, but within the same realm as existing lines

Daigoro Toyama Nov 7, 2023

@dx @chris @ClintonAnderson I'm not familiar with the Beijing-Guangzhou line, but I'd suspect they had to make sure the railways are as straight and as flat as possible. That can mean a lot of tunnels.

🚲Nov 7, 2023

@daihard @chris @ClintonAnderson I think China used a lot of elevated tracks too. China built 42,000 km of HSR in like 20 years. These things can be done. Maybe the economics are tricky, but what has been the ongoing cost of highways and externalities of ICE cars?

🚲Nov 7, 2023

@daihard @ClintonAnderson @chris I think you’d want to follow the existing rail path or Hwy1 route approximately, hitting Winnipeg and Edmonton or Calgary at the very least along the way.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@dx @ClintonAnderson absolutely. Scream it from the rafters. The whole "provincial jurisdiction" thing has been used to divide us as a country and rob us of national pride and vision. Don't stop at Toronto. Vancouver to Halifax. By Bullet Train. Now.

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 7, 2023

@dx @chris I'd agree with a NETWORK from Coast to Coast, sure.... But an express line from TO to Vancouver would be a ridiculous expense and effort just to service two cities.

As someone else here said... 16 hours vs a 3-4 hour flight..... For environmental reasons, sure... But as practical transit? I'm not sold.....

And I HATE arguing against trains lol

🚲Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @chris I didn’t mean a train that only went to those two cities, just a HSR line that terminated in those two. I expect you’d stop at Winnipeg and at least one Albertan city too.

Also, an overnight train ride for 16 hours wins over a 4 hour flight for me personally. And flying isn’t sustainable at large, and I haven’t seen any strong contenders to fix it

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 7, 2023

@dx @chris I'll never argue in favor of airlines!

I can see situations where, in Emergencies, 16 hours isn't going to be anywhere near fast enough, where 4 hours might be....

The problem is now, we don't have the option to do one and not the other.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @dx for sure

🚲Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @chris I agree we may never replace air travel all together, but since it would cost an estimated $1T USD to hit net zero for planes, maybe we should consider prioritizing other means.

Clinton Anderson SwordForHire Nov 7, 2023

@dx @chris Hear hear

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@ClintonAnderson @dx Note: Vancouver to Toronto is a 4.5 to 5hr flight. And you can always tack on 2-3hrs in the Airport as well.

PhoenixSerenity Nov 7, 2023

@chris It's highly traumatic for many disabled folks. I still remember how crappy I was treated by both Air Canada & Westjet at YVR on 2 separate occasions, several years back. Ironically, 3 years after after inhumane treatment by Air Canada & having problems getting around YVR by myself, I was part of the consultation team for YVR - before their big renovations - to make airport more accessible for disabled travelers. Airlines still have a long way to go on accessibility.

Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸Nov 7, 2023

@msquebanh the number of horrendous stories is really really shocking. Glad you were able to be part of that team to make YVR better!!

PhoenixSerenity Nov 7, 2023

@chris I was the only physically disabled accessibility consultant on the team. I asked them to bring me a variety of mobility aids to test out in airport & brought in 2 other disabled people to give helpful input (one blind with hearing impairment & one with multiple invisible disabilities).

People who aren't disabled, don't know what we really need when traveling alone.

Dubs! 🌩️Nov 7, 2023

@chris I always thought a line running from Whitehorse down to Prince George or even Vancouver in BC would be nice, a lot of people in the smaller northern communities frequently drive south for things like medical. Heck, if memory serves me right a lot of prep work was done for a rail line up that way but it was cancelled for whatever reason.
As a kid I thought trains would be a bigger part of my life because of the movies… kinda disappointed!

Gordon J Holtslander Nov 7, 2023

@chris For a country that was "founded on railways" its pathetic that we have no high-speed passenger railways. Perhaps we should be known as a country so polite, it is easily conned and corrupted? What corruptions would it take for high-speed rail? https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/railroad-building-in-the-19th-century-was-an-orgy-of-corruption-but-hey-it-built-a-country

Railroad-building in the 19th century was an orgy of corruption. But hey, it built a country

Get over it, Canada: Early Canadian infrastructure contracts were riddled with kickbacks, but things seem to have worked out okay

nationalpost

Gordon J Holtslander Nov 8, 2023

@chris Is it more, Canada was not so much a united country, but a business convenience put in place to harvest its natural resources, with little thought and strategy for anything else? Has it changed?

Gordon J Holtslander Nov 8, 2023

@chris Til 1869 “Canada” was just The Hudson’s Bay Company, “HBC agreed to transfer Rupert’s Land to Canada for the bargain price of £300,000, or $1.5 million” Rupert’s land “ comprised what is now northern Quebec and Labrador, northern and western Ontario, all of Manitoba, most of Saskatchewan, south and central Alberta, parts of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut, and small sections of the northern United States” https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ruperts-land

Rupert's Land

Rupert’s Land was a vast territory of northern wilderness. It represented a third of what is now Canada. From 1670 to 1870, it was the exclusive commercial do...