61/ Trump returns to his pet issue: the “worthless statement” clause that disclaims responsibility & insists that anyone receiving it must do their own due diligence and analysis.

Trump: “If there was a mistake, it was non-material; but even if it was material, we have a disclaimer clause. I never got too involved w these statements bc that clause is on pg 1, as you well know; that’s why we shouldn’t be having a case here..." More...

62/ Trump contd: "That’s a clause every court in this country holds up except this particular judge.”

Wallace then asks whether it is Trump’s position that the statements were in fact “worthless,” which Trump also resists. “People like you try to demean me and hurt me,” he hurls at Wallace, and then he attacks AG James, too.

63/ Rubin, cont'd... Trump's playing to his base bigly here.

“I think she is a political hack; she used this case to try to become governor…. this is a disgrace. All you have to do is read the legal papers and the scholars. This is a political witch hunt, and I think you should be ashamed of herself.”

The question was solely about whether he agreed with the AG office's position that “the statements of financial condition were overstated."

64/ [Me: Wow... SO wanting headlines, SO wanting to distract from his guilt, SO playing to his violent base]

👉🏼Trump yells moments later that Engoron "ruled against me before he knew anything about me. He called me a fraud, and he didn’t know anything about me. ... The fraud is on the court; not on me."

Trump is equally furious about Wallace’s questions, which are exploring why Mar-a-Lago is assessed differently for tax purposes than it is valued in Trump’s statements of financial condition.

65/ Klasfeld:

Trump: "Every court in the United States has upheld it," referring to the disclaimer clause.

He invokes legal scholars who purportedly agree with him. "It's disgraceful," he says, referring to case.

Trump says of the NYAG: "I think that she's a political hack."

He says that the NYAG used this case to try to become the governor and to successfully become attorney general.

(Trump lost political motivation arguments before trial.)

66/ Klasfeld:

Habba objects: "Asked and answered."

Engoron: "No, it hasn't been asked and answered. It's been asked. It hasn't been answered."

Trump monologues on the disclaimer clause.

Judge: If you want to learn about the disclaimer clause, read my opinion — for the first time.

Trump: You’re wrong about the opinion.

Trump: "I think it’s fraudulent the decision. The fraud is on the court."

67/ Klasfeld for the next few:

Trump rails on about the "fraudulent" decision, claiming Engoron believed a political "hack" over him, referring to the NYAG.

Wallace: "Are you done?"

👉🏼Especially given his repeated warnings earlier this morning, the judge has given remarkable latitude for all of this.

68/ Q: Who from the Trump Org was responsible from detecting fraud?
A: Everybody.

Trump:

"Anybody sees something going wrong, come see me about it directly."

Asked if anyone did that, Trump responds in the affirmative, and the AG's counsel asks for an example. Trump responds to with a broad generality.

69/ Trump:

"Come to see management, but come to see me directly. I don't want that going on."

This is in response to Trump Org's engagement letter with Mazars, which held management responsible for "preventing and detecting fraud."

Referring to the document, Trump says: "I'd love to read this your honor. Can I do that?"

Engoron: "No, not at this point."

Trump: "Shock"

[Me, to Trump: 🖕 ]

70/ It might go without saying, but Trump's "shock" remark was said with mocking sarcasm.

Trump's shown an article by Forbes.

He scoffs: "Forbes. They're owned by China. Now, they sold it to Russia."

[Me, to Trump: 🖕. Forgive my redundancy. ]

71/ Still Klasfeld:

Trump, hammering home the point:

"I have very little respect for Forbes."

👉🏼(Forbes broke the news that Trump inflated the size of his New York penthouse and recently knocked him off the billionaires list.)

The AG's counsel plays an audio clip of the interview, which was mostly inaudible.

Kise asks if the judge made any of it out.

He didn't.

They move on. Asked if the barely audible convo refreshes his recollection of fact that he spoke to Forbes, Trump answers no.

72/ Rubin for next few:

Chuck Rosenberg examines 2 possible reasons for Trump rants

One possibility is that Trump is "trying to goad" Judge Engoron into saying something that could help Trump on appeal, Rosenberg said moments ago on MSNBC's "Andrea Mitchell Reports." For example, Trump's legal team could try to suggest the judge exhibited bias during the trial.

(more...)

73/ But Rosenberg noted that Engoron is "an experienced jurist” and it doesn't appear as though he's made any such statements.

Another possible reason for the rants: "It may just be that Mr. Trump is incoherent, that his answers make quite literally no sense."

At the end of the day, Rosenberg said, it's the judge who will determine the penalties for Trump.

74/ Klasfeld:

Wallace shows Trump evidence showing that 40 Wall Street ran a cash flow deficit of $8.7 million in March 31, 2015.

Trump says they made a lot of investments to the building.

"I spent a lot of money on fixing the building up."

75/ I'm not posting Klasfeld's screenshots, but you get the idea.

Klasfeld:

Trump, on NYAG Letitia James:

"She doesn't even know what 40 Wall Street is."

👉🏼NYAG is visibly cackling at the remark for a bit, then puts her head down to compose herself.

These two dots show the NYAG's office in relation to 40 Wall Street.

(They're right next to each other.)

76/ Via Emptywheel:

I hope to hell Jack Smith has a witness on hand watching this...

All very predictable. But it has to be accounted for.

77/ [Me: Some of my fave words: "Trump concedes.."]

Klasfeld:

Q: "Mr. Trump, are you the one who told a reporter for the Wall St Journal that there was a $600 million appraisal for 40 Wall S?

Trump says he doesn't remember something from 12 years ago.🤭

AG's counsel shows email from Don Jr. to Trump Org execs on 1/22/12, which says, in part, "djt told [the reporter] the 600 [number] so he will be happy if that gets printed."

🤭Trump concedes he was the "djt" his son referred to in the email

78/ Via MSNBC site, Jordan Rubin:👀

Normal witnesses don’t try to take papers from their pockets and then try to read them from the witness stand. But we got another reminder of how this is not a normal trial and how this isn’t a normal witness on the stand.

Unsurprisingly, Judge Engoron denied Trump’s attempt to do this — because it’s not a thing.

LUNCH RECESS

79/ LOVE. 🔥

Via Hayley Miller:

The court is now in recess for lunch until 2:15 p.m. ET.

James, the New York attorney general, seized on the opportunity to take a jab at Trump, seeming to mock the former president's claim that she "doesn't know what a 40 Wall Street is," referring to one of his Manhattan properties.

80/ Heads up.

Klasfeld:

The AG's attorneys return to court.

81/ Via Jordan Rubin:

After a rough morning in court, should we expect a disciplined Trump to emerge in pm session?

OK, the q answers itself. But we got some evidence that further confirms the obvious.

Trump took to Truth Social site during break [Me: see my earlier toot]

...obviously judge is there to hear what parties have to say. But judge tk Trump to task for his meandering testimony that didn’t answer the q's asked of him — key context that's missing from Trump’s social media post.

82/ Thank you all for remembering to add "Not for Laffy" in your responses. It really helps.

Also, remember: I have to leave a little early, so I'll add whatever there is left when I get back.

And thanks for all the kind words.

Okay, back to the salt mines.

LIE (vs "live") thread continues.

83/ Via Jordan Rubin:

Asked during the break if she’ll urge Trump to answer questions more concisely after a rambling morning of testimony that drew Engoron’s ire, Trump lawyer Alina Habba said she wouldn’t try to limit her client’s free speech.

To be sure, Trump’s free speech rights aren’t at issue here. A trial witness doesn’t have the right to answer a lawyer’s questions however they want to. For better or worse, judges are largely in control of managing that process.

84/ Klasfeld:

We're back.

NYAG's counsel Kevin Wallace shows Trump a piece of evidence related to a loan agreement, attached to an email.

Trump's signature is on the document.

85/ Lisa Rubin for next few, re earlier:

During the lunch break, a colleague less steeped in the minutia of this case asked me whether the AG’s team is scoring any points, given how often Trump has digressed or ranted. Indeed, they have.

They have shown, for example, that despite having no memory of telling a Wall Street Journal reporter that a particular building was valued at $600 million, a contemporaneous email from his son showed he, in fact, did exactly that.

90/ Klasfeld:

Under the terms of the agreement, Trump had to maintain unencumbered liquid assets of $50 million.

Q: Do you believe you complied with this?
A: Yeah, I had a lot of cash.
I've had a lot of cash for a long time."

Under the agreement, Trump also had to maintain minimum net worth of $2.5 billion.

(In 2012, Trump's net worth was $1.8 billion, according to the AG's calculations, based on third-party appraisals.)

91/ Klasfeld:

Kise makes his usual statute of limitations objection on a term loan agreement from late 2012, which the judge, as usual, overrules.

👉🏼Trump smiles broadly at the ruling.

When it's entered into evidence, he shakes his head. Then, he inspects the document.

The agreement required the guarantor to supply "true and correct" financial statements.

92/ Andrew Weissmann is having an ALL CAPS moment:

AG GETS TRUMP TO AGREE THAT THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS AND TRUMP'S PERSONAL GUARANTY WERE TO INDUCE BANKS TO LEND MONEY. KEY FACT FOR THIS FRAUD CASE

93/ Back to Klasfeld:

This is building a record for the heart of the AG's case—namely, alleging that Trump sent fraudulent statements of financial condition to banks & insurers to obtain favorable terms.

That's what the judge found on the top count, and what's to be determined on the other counts.

94/ Klasfeld:

In prior testimony, NYAG's office called att to covenants requiring that Trump maintain a certain net worth & liquidity to obtain favorable rates on loans.

Trump argues again it wasn't fraud bc the banks "got all their money back" and the loan was "paid off in full."

"The bank was thrilled," Trump testifies. "There was no loss of money. They made a lot of money, and everyone is trying to figure out why you're doing it. [...] I understand it. It's called 'politics.'" 😂🤦🏻‍♀️

95/ Klasfeld:

Context:
NYAG argues that Trump's fraudulent financial statements led banks to assume greater risk w lower interest rates than they otherwise would.

They argue this led the banks to lose $168M they would have made in interest.

96/ Klasfeld:

That's why the AG's counsel keeps showing Trump loan agreements that obligate Trump to:

* supply "true and correct" financial statements
* maintain a certain net worth (usually $2.5 billion
* maintain certain liquidity (under the heading unencumbered liquid assets)

97/ Klasfeld:

Trump:

"The net worth of me was far greater than the financial statements. So I don't know what you're getting at."🙄

98/ Klasfeld:

Trump:

"You're going into ancient history."

He complains again on the statute of limitations and goes into a lengthy monologue about the disclaimer clause.

"Therefore, you have no case."

During that speech, Trump said that the disclaimer clause "goes on forever," in one of his many talking points.

👉🏼The AG's counsel deadpans: "That clause isn't the only thing that goes on forever."😂

(Laughter in the court.)