50/ Via Forbes' Chase Peterson-Withorn
"And different things" includes an entirely separate penthouse belonging to someone else. And, by the way, Trump is making it sound like he wasn't aware, but he spent two hours personally telling me his apartment was 33,000 square feet and took up all of the top 3 floors...
re: Trump:
"They took 10,000 feet per floor, and they went times three. But they didn't take out elevator shafts and different things."
51/ [Trump doing caricature of himself is perversely amusing]
Klasfeld:
Trump:
"Aberdeen is a very rich place. It's an incredible piece of land, and it may be the greatest golf course ever built."
52/ Klasfeld:
Justice Engoron tells the NYAG's counsel that he's following his lead, and if he wants to let the witness "ramble" on with "unresponsive" answers, he'll do that.
🤦🏻♀️Kise defends what he describes as Trump's "brilliant" response.🤦🏻♀️
[Me: Kise: "We're ALL Trump now! Weeeee!"]
[Me:Trump, doing his impression of Trump:]
Trump:
"I have a lot of money, a lot more money than you thought."
Orden: Trump: "I’m not a windmill person."
53/ Klasfeld:
Are you aware of any valuations on the statements of financial condition from 2017 through 2021?
Trump:
"I'm worth billions of dollars more than the financial statements" — and anything "off" would be "non-material."
(The judge rejected materiality arguments before trial.)
54/ [Me: So much for Trump getting more succinct after the break. Nope. We knew that could never last]
Klasfeld:
Trump returns to the "disclaimer clause" and "worthless statement clause," in a lengthy monologue — again, an issue decided against him before trial and brought up apropos of nothing.
55/ Rubin, next few posts:
Wallace has moved on to Trump properties abroad, specifically the Aberdeen development in Scotland. The supporting data spreadsheet presented by the attorney general's office reflects that the valuation as of June 30, 2014, had jumped by roughly $250 million over the prior year.
As of 2014, Trump affirms he had not yet built a second golf course; rather, he testifies, “l am building it now.”
56/ He digresses once again, declaring the Scotland property is "one of the greatest pieces of land I have ever seen."
Wallace refocuses Trump, forcing admissions that between 2013 and 2014, he did not build another golf course, hotel or even homes. Wallace states plainly, “I’m focused on how we got a $245 million increase between 2013 and 2014.”
57/ Wallace later returns to the statement of financial condition, which refers to 1,486 homes, only 500 of which are described as single-family homes. The state attorney asks Trump to confirm that the number in the "backup data does not match the number of homes in the statement of financial condition."
Trump suggests it’s like a painting; the land is there, but “you can do what you want to do.”
[Me: Huh?]
58/ Even worse, Wallace asked Trump to admit that in 2014, because of wind farms that had been put in, then-Trump Org. CFO Allen Weisselberg told Scottish regulators that they did not intend to develop the property further.
When asked as of today whether he has yet to build homes at Aberdeen, Trump doesn't say yes; instead, he says “there’s nothing wrong” with holding on to that piece of property.🤭
59/ Back to Klasfeld:
Trump, to the AG's counsel Kevin Wallace:
"People like you go around to try to demean me, and try to hurt me." 🎻 #victimhood
Wallace tells the judge he won't move to strike because he has a lot of ground to cover.
After Trump repeats his talking points about the disclaimer clause, Wallace tells him he already said that.
"I'm trying to make you understand it," Trump replies. [Me--Narrator: The prosecutors understand it all too well, Defendant Trump]
60/ Rubin for next few:
Wallace asks Trump if he stands by the valuations of all other assets in the 2014 statement of financial condition (aside from the Trump Tower triplex apartment.)
Trump deflects, insisting that it’s been a long time since he looked at them. He says that he is worth billions more than the AG thought. Any overvaluations would be non-material, Trump maintains, before also acknowledging he hasn’t looked.
61/ Trump returns to his pet issue: the “worthless statement” clause that disclaims responsibility & insists that anyone receiving it must do their own due diligence and analysis.
Trump: “If there was a mistake, it was non-material; but even if it was material, we have a disclaimer clause. I never got too involved w these statements bc that clause is on pg 1, as you well know; that’s why we shouldn’t be having a case here..." More...
62/ Trump contd: "That’s a clause every court in this country holds up except this particular judge.”
Wallace then asks whether it is Trump’s position that the statements were in fact “worthless,” which Trump also resists. “People like you try to demean me and hurt me,” he hurls at Wallace, and then he attacks AG James, too.
63/ Rubin, cont'd... Trump's playing to his base bigly here.
“I think she is a political hack; she used this case to try to become governor…. this is a disgrace. All you have to do is read the legal papers and the scholars. This is a political witch hunt, and I think you should be ashamed of herself.”
The question was solely about whether he agreed with the AG office's position that “the statements of financial condition were overstated."
64/ [Me: Wow... SO wanting headlines, SO wanting to distract from his guilt, SO playing to his violent base]
👉🏼Trump yells moments later that Engoron "ruled against me before he knew anything about me. He called me a fraud, and he didn’t know anything about me. ... The fraud is on the court; not on me."
Trump is equally furious about Wallace’s questions, which are exploring why Mar-a-Lago is assessed differently for tax purposes than it is valued in Trump’s statements of financial condition.
65/ Klasfeld:
Trump: "Every court in the United States has upheld it," referring to the disclaimer clause.
He invokes legal scholars who purportedly agree with him. "It's disgraceful," he says, referring to case.
Trump says of the NYAG: "I think that she's a political hack."
He says that the NYAG used this case to try to become the governor and to successfully become attorney general.
(Trump lost political motivation arguments before trial.)
66/ Klasfeld:
Habba objects: "Asked and answered."
Engoron: "No, it hasn't been asked and answered. It's been asked. It hasn't been answered."
Trump monologues on the disclaimer clause.
Judge: If you want to learn about the disclaimer clause, read my opinion — for the first time.
Trump: You’re wrong about the opinion.
Trump: "I think it’s fraudulent the decision. The fraud is on the court."
67/ Klasfeld for the next few:
Trump rails on about the "fraudulent" decision, claiming Engoron believed a political "hack" over him, referring to the NYAG.
Wallace: "Are you done?"
👉🏼Especially given his repeated warnings earlier this morning, the judge has given remarkable latitude for all of this.
68/ Q: Who from the Trump Org was responsible from detecting fraud?
A: Everybody.
Trump:
"Anybody sees something going wrong, come see me about it directly."
Asked if anyone did that, Trump responds in the affirmative, and the AG's counsel asks for an example. Trump responds to with a broad generality.
69/ Trump:
"Come to see management, but come to see me directly. I don't want that going on."
This is in response to Trump Org's engagement letter with Mazars, which held management responsible for "preventing and detecting fraud."
Referring to the document, Trump says: "I'd love to read this your honor. Can I do that?"
Engoron: "No, not at this point."
Trump: "Shock"
[Me, to Trump: 🖕 ]
70/ It might go without saying, but Trump's "shock" remark was said with mocking sarcasm.
Trump's shown an article by Forbes.
He scoffs: "Forbes. They're owned by China. Now, they sold it to Russia."
[Me, to Trump: 🖕. Forgive my redundancy. ]
71/ Still Klasfeld:
Trump, hammering home the point:
"I have very little respect for Forbes."
👉🏼(Forbes broke the news that Trump inflated the size of his New York penthouse and recently knocked him off the billionaires list.)
The AG's counsel plays an audio clip of the interview, which was mostly inaudible.
Kise asks if the judge made any of it out.
He didn't.
They move on. Asked if the barely audible convo refreshes his recollection of fact that he spoke to Forbes, Trump answers no.
72/ Rubin for next few:
Chuck Rosenberg examines 2 possible reasons for Trump rants
One possibility is that Trump is "trying to goad" Judge Engoron into saying something that could help Trump on appeal, Rosenberg said moments ago on MSNBC's "Andrea Mitchell Reports." For example, Trump's legal team could try to suggest the judge exhibited bias during the trial.
(more...)
73/ But Rosenberg noted that Engoron is "an experienced jurist” and it doesn't appear as though he's made any such statements.
Another possible reason for the rants: "It may just be that Mr. Trump is incoherent, that his answers make quite literally no sense."
At the end of the day, Rosenberg said, it's the judge who will determine the penalties for Trump.
74/ Klasfeld:
Wallace shows Trump evidence showing that 40 Wall Street ran a cash flow deficit of $8.7 million in March 31, 2015.
Trump says they made a lot of investments to the building.
"I spent a lot of money on fixing the building up."
75/ I'm not posting Klasfeld's screenshots, but you get the idea.
Klasfeld:
Trump, on NYAG Letitia James:
"She doesn't even know what 40 Wall Street is."
👉🏼NYAG is visibly cackling at the remark for a bit, then puts her head down to compose herself.
These two dots show the NYAG's office in relation to 40 Wall Street.
(They're right next to each other.)
76/ Via Emptywheel:
I hope to hell Jack Smith has a witness on hand watching this...
All very predictable. But it has to be accounted for.
77/ [Me: Some of my fave words: "Trump concedes.."]
Klasfeld:
Q: "Mr. Trump, are you the one who told a reporter for the Wall St Journal that there was a $600 million appraisal for 40 Wall S?
Trump says he doesn't remember something from 12 years ago.🤭
AG's counsel shows email from Don Jr. to Trump Org execs on 1/22/12, which says, in part, "djt told [the reporter] the 600 [number] so he will be happy if that gets printed."
🤭Trump concedes he was the "djt" his son referred to in the email
78/ Via MSNBC site, Jordan Rubin:👀
Normal witnesses don’t try to take papers from their pockets and then try to read them from the witness stand. But we got another reminder of how this is not a normal trial and how this isn’t a normal witness on the stand.
Unsurprisingly, Judge Engoron denied Trump’s attempt to do this — because it’s not a thing.
LUNCH RECESS
79/ LOVE. 🔥
Via Hayley Miller:
The court is now in recess for lunch until 2:15 p.m. ET.
James, the New York attorney general, seized on the opportunity to take a jab at Trump, seeming to mock the former president's claim that she "doesn't know what a 40 Wall Street is," referring to one of his Manhattan properties.
80/ Heads up.
Klasfeld:
The AG's attorneys return to court.
81/ Via Jordan Rubin:
After a rough morning in court, should we expect a disciplined Trump to emerge in pm session?
OK, the q answers itself. But we got some evidence that further confirms the obvious.
Trump took to Truth Social site during break [Me: see my earlier toot]
...obviously judge is there to hear what parties have to say. But judge tk Trump to task for his meandering testimony that didn’t answer the q's asked of him — key context that's missing from Trump’s social media post.
82/ Thank you all for remembering to add "Not for Laffy" in your responses. It really helps.
Also, remember: I have to leave a little early, so I'll add whatever there is left when I get back.
And thanks for all the kind words.
Okay, back to the salt mines.
LIE (vs "live") thread continues.
83/ Via Jordan Rubin:
Asked during the break if she’ll urge Trump to answer questions more concisely after a rambling morning of testimony that drew Engoron’s ire, Trump lawyer Alina Habba said she wouldn’t try to limit her client’s free speech.
To be sure, Trump’s free speech rights aren’t at issue here. A trial witness doesn’t have the right to answer a lawyer’s questions however they want to. For better or worse, judges are largely in control of managing that process.
84/ Klasfeld:
We're back.
NYAG's counsel Kevin Wallace shows Trump a piece of evidence related to a loan agreement, attached to an email.
Trump's signature is on the document.
85/ Lisa Rubin for next few, re earlier:
During the lunch break, a colleague less steeped in the minutia of this case asked me whether the AG’s team is scoring any points, given how often Trump has digressed or ranted. Indeed, they have.
They have shown, for example, that despite having no memory of telling a Wall Street Journal reporter that a particular building was valued at $600 million, a contemporaneous email from his son showed he, in fact, did exactly that.
90/ Klasfeld:
Under the terms of the agreement, Trump had to maintain unencumbered liquid assets of $50 million.
Q: Do you believe you complied with this?
A: Yeah, I had a lot of cash.
I've had a lot of cash for a long time."
Under the agreement, Trump also had to maintain minimum net worth of $2.5 billion.
(In 2012, Trump's net worth was $1.8 billion, according to the AG's calculations, based on third-party appraisals.)
91/ Klasfeld:
Kise makes his usual statute of limitations objection on a term loan agreement from late 2012, which the judge, as usual, overrules.
👉🏼Trump smiles broadly at the ruling.
When it's entered into evidence, he shakes his head. Then, he inspects the document.
The agreement required the guarantor to supply "true and correct" financial statements.
92/ Andrew Weissmann is having an ALL CAPS moment:
AG GETS TRUMP TO AGREE THAT THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS AND TRUMP'S PERSONAL GUARANTY WERE TO INDUCE BANKS TO LEND MONEY. KEY FACT FOR THIS FRAUD CASE
93/ Back to Klasfeld:
This is building a record for the heart of the AG's case—namely, alleging that Trump sent fraudulent statements of financial condition to banks & insurers to obtain favorable terms.
That's what the judge found on the top count, and what's to be determined on the other counts.
94/ Klasfeld:
In prior testimony, NYAG's office called att to covenants requiring that Trump maintain a certain net worth & liquidity to obtain favorable rates on loans.
Trump argues again it wasn't fraud bc the banks "got all their money back" and the loan was "paid off in full."
"The bank was thrilled," Trump testifies. "There was no loss of money. They made a lot of money, and everyone is trying to figure out why you're doing it. [...] I understand it. It's called 'politics.'" 😂🤦🏻♀️
95/ Klasfeld:
Context:
NYAG argues that Trump's fraudulent financial statements led banks to assume greater risk w lower interest rates than they otherwise would.
They argue this led the banks to lose $168M they would have made in interest.
96/ Klasfeld:
That's why the AG's counsel keeps showing Trump loan agreements that obligate Trump to:
* supply "true and correct" financial statements
* maintain a certain net worth (usually $2.5 billion
* maintain certain liquidity (under the heading unencumbered liquid assets)
97/ Klasfeld:
Trump:
"The net worth of me was far greater than the financial statements. So I don't know what you're getting at."🙄
98/ Klasfeld:
Trump:
"You're going into ancient history."
He complains again on the statute of limitations and goes into a lengthy monologue about the disclaimer clause.
"Therefore, you have no case."
During that speech, Trump said that the disclaimer clause "goes on forever," in one of his many talking points.
👉🏼The AG's counsel deadpans: "That clause isn't the only thing that goes on forever."😂
(Laughter in the court.)
99/ Rubin is back, next few are hers:
Wallace, state attorney, ques Trump about his loan agreement w Deutsche Bank for the Trump Chicago hotel & residences.
Trump not only guaranteed the residential & hotel segments of that loan but also made a series of representations and warranties to induce Deutsche Bank to lend to him. One of them is that his statements of financial condition are true and accurate in all material respects and present fairly his financial condition as of June 30 of each yr
100/ Rubin:
The agreement also obligated him to have unencumbered “liquid assets” of not less than $50 million. Trump confirms he was aware of this obligation, and says he believes he complied, even if Deutsche Bank was only concerned with his cash on hand.
Trump also affirms that he understood Deutsche Bank required that he maintain a net worth of at least $2.5 billion, but he testifies that he could have presented a handful of assets and “they would have been satisfied.”
101/ Rubin:
Trump grows angry during questioning on D.C. property
We’ve now moved on to the loan for the Old Post Office property, which Trump turned into the Trump International Hotel Washington DC, the unofficial clubhouse of the MAGA movement during his presidency. Trump famously sold the Old Post Office lease for $375 million last year, making this property ripe for disgorgement claims from the N.Y. attorney general.
104/ Still Rubin:
Trump is now not only insisting that he complied but that his assets, as a whole, were worth much more than the total value listed on his statements of financial condition. “The numbers are far greater than the $2.5 billion,” he insists, growing angry. “Therefore, you have no case.”
[Me:That's where the laughter came in upthread]
105/ Klasfeld:
How the judge jettisoned the "worthless clause" defense before trial, in the ruling ordering the dissolution of Trump's New York business empire.
His "reliance on these 'worthless' disclaimers is worthless."
Trump::
"It really wasn't material."
Clarifying a point from earlier: The judge rejected the materiality defense before trial as to the top count, finding the state doesn't need to prove that.
But they do need to prove materiality on the remaining counts at trial.
106/ Rubin for next few:
Having examined Trump about his lending agreements with Deutsche Bank, Wallace asks Trump about the certifications he sent to the bank each year, as required in those loan agreements.
Trump just testified that contrary to his certification, the statements of financial condition were not accurate in all material respects because they did not include his brand value.
107/ “Are you testifying these are not accurate?” Wallace asks.
👉🏼Trump somewhat walks it back, testifying they were accurate but for the exclusion of his brand value, the error in the valuation of his apartment, and the overvaluation of Seven Springs, which he says he requested be lowered.
108/ 👀Klasfeld:
Trump just tore into the AG and the judge. He called Wallace a "disgrace."
Engoron says he's going to date himself with the analogy, but Trump's sounding like a "broken record."
109/ Rubin:
One of Trump’s repeated themes today is that notwithstanding clear contractual language requiring the submission of his statements of financial condition and his certification that those statements were true and accurate, they were not important to the bank at all.
He has promised the bank will even testify to that effect. File that promise away for the defense’s case in chief, which is expected to begin Thursday or early next week.
110/ 🤦🏻♀️
Klasfeld:
Trump defends his ex-CFO Allen Weisselberg, whom he says the DA charged "because he paid for the education of his grandchildren."
"That's some kind of breach that they're going to put a man in jail?"
Weisselberg pleaded guilty to doing that via tax evasion
He has promised the bank will even testify to that effect.
ALL.... Ya... can't wait to hear that testimony....
@GottaLaff
UPDATED: Never mind, I found it: https://www.advisorhub.com/trumps-former-banker-at-deutsche-bank-among-those-testifying-in-fraud-trial/
Orig. post:
For Laffy OR anyone else who knows:
Re: "[Trump] has promised the bank will even testify to that effect" (that they didn't actually care about his assets): do we know from the defense witness list who they're planning to call?
The Trump family’s longtime banker at Deutsche Bank and Donald Trump himself are set to take the witness stand in his upcoming civil fraud trial in New York, where the former president is accused of exaggerating the value of his assets by billions of dollars for a decade to dupe lenders and insurers.
@GottaLaff
Any bank officer who testified that the bank didn't care about the truth of a prospective borrower's submissions would leave the witness stand to discover that they were no longer an officer of that bank.
This is how much we can expect that promised testimony to happen.
@GottaLaff (Not for Laffy):
I don’t understand the “nobody got hurt” defense.
I personally know people who spent 30 days in jail for driving under the influence…and nobody got hurt. Here, that’s a 1st degree misdeamor...doesn’t even rise to felony level.
@TammyGentzel These are different branches of law, though. One's for the rich people, and the other is for the little people.
only in his mind... someone can tell me theeir rusted our 64 ford is really work more than 200$%... but it aint.
@GottaLaff [not for Laffy]
Not many people know this, but if you loudly and assertively proclaim “You have no case!” from the witness stand, prosecutors are REQUIRED to drop the charges. Plus, if you slam your tiny fist on the stand while you say it, then you’re also entitled to compensation for your troubles.
@GottaLaff (no response needed, Laffy. Thanks for keeping us caught up with the insanity!)
Trump is such a narcissist that he seems to think his super-inflated sense of self-worth is a legally valid asset he can add to his financials.
Laughter out here, too 😂😂😂
Not for Laffy.
So, the way I see this is that Trump thinks that they are trying to nail him on this paper trail. That's why he and his team keep saying it's out of the statute of limitations. However, I am not a lawyer, and could be very wrong, but it looks like they are trying to use some of these older documents to establish Trump's history of intent. That's why NYAG team isn't fighting it each time he shouts "statute of limitations!"
Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
he also doesn't get... then net worth of ME... is a nothing... it's ASSETS that count... like real building and land....
I'm sure he has a lot of imaginary friends too.
A tenet of fascism is to convince people of any lies at your whim and that includes asserting that truth is whatever you say it is and of its mutability. Reality need no apply.
he's just fucking dense... as long as someone made a penny and not the dime they were entitled to... it's all good.
@GottaLaff we know exactly how it works out when loans are created on fraudulent or absent guarantees of liquidity... you end up with the 2008 financial crash.
The "got away with it" argument is like saying there's no crime if you steal from a bank, go to Vegas to gamble, win big and then drop off a sack of cash a week later.
The crime happens at day 1 when you obtain the cash fraudulently no matter what you do with it.
The bank kept writing checks even after Trump defaulted on loans worth hundreds of millions and sued it. Now Congressional investigators are going to court to uncover the financial records behind their relationship.
@GottaLaff This is a gorgeous admission by Trump. Here's an analogy:
Imagine someone falsely tells you they desperately need to borrow $1,000 bec their elderly cat needs surgery.
They then take the $1,000 to a casino and bet it on black; luckily, the roulette ball lands on black, so they get $2,000 and pay you back.
When you learn they never even owned a cat, and instead used your money to gamble, is your response:
@msbellows @OutOnTheMoors @GottaLaff
It might actually be true. DB is not an innocent party here either. The bankers could well have been looking for an ostensible justification to make sketchy loans and known that Trump was flim-flamming. They just didn't care because, they had Trump dead to rights for making false representations if the whole thing blew up. Which it has.
Laffy
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