😀🚲You know, if those trips were going to be taken on bikes without motors, they already would. #eBikes are the bikes that don't gather dust in the back of the garage, that actually replace car trips. Some people don't need them, but the people still in cars clearly aren't those ones.
It's not going to get someone into shape to feel defeated on the way home from the grocery store, trudging up the last hill with a laden acoustic bike. Many people are not going to go ride it just for exercise. An easy car replacement, even if you barely pedal, is going to get you more active than sitting in a car. I've heard plenty of these stories from people who were able to gradually get in shape thanks to the assisted moderate effort of regular e-bike use. It just removes barriers.
Stanley Black-Decker@enobacon That's exactly it
Mom exhausts herself on the acoustic and then doesn't ride it for months
I tell her to get an e-bike, she says she just needs to get in shape...
@pleaseclap maybe some people just need to borrow an e-bike until they're fit enough to ride the bike they have 😂
climate voter/degrowthist@pleaseclap @enobacon Also, you can be in as good as shape as you want with ebike. You can be in better shape if that is your objective.
Sam Levine@enobacon There is a study on this phenomena (people getting more exercise when they switch to an ebike if they were previously only an occasional rider because they ride more frequently and for longer distances), but I think I closed the tab I had it open in. Someone on this server post it a while ago. It was a great bit of hard data to back up this argument.
@SRLevine there have been a few such studies but I have the hard data in my calf muscles 😎
MCDuncanLabPersonal vignette, before I got my e-bike I would ride in on weekends, occasional weekday, and very occasionally pick up groceries.
With the e-bike, I biked almost every day since May and did maybe 50% of my shopping by bike.
For me, the main reason I biked more is speed, on the e-bike if I push I can get to work in 30 min without being completely wiped out. On a regular bike, pushing only made me tired and didn't make me faster.
@MCDuncanLab @SRLevine @enobacon There you go. I have always kept the assist down to a low level. Sometimes I turn it off. Part of the reason for this is that I don't feel like I have to go very fast.
sanae 
(SF)@enobacon also like convincing other people to get exercise is pretty low on my list of priorities, people can make whatever transportation choices they like that don't involve messing up the planet I'm living on
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Daigoro Toyama@sanae @enobacon There are studies that indicate riding an e-bike can get you as fit as riding an acoustic one, or even more fit. The main reason seems to be that as you said, an e-bike will encourage you to ride more and further, thereby resulting in more physical work than just riding an acoustic bike here and there.
@daihard @enobacon either way I think it's pretty unimportant. I actually think the focus on fitness is bad because it cements the idea that riding a bike is something you do for recreation, maybe something where you even drive your bike to the starting point, or as part of a niche fitness oriented lifestyle, rather than a way to get around. It also makes riding a bike sound a lot more challenging than it actually is for people who do not see themselves in fitness oriented subcultures
@sanae @daihard it's hard to strike a balance between talking-up the benefits in terms of public health and individual fitness without making some ideal of fitness seem like a mandate. Staying/getting healthy enough to easily climb stairs is nice, but there is also this pile of money we each individually set on fire every year just to transport our bodies and a bit of cargo (and then again collectively via the DOT budget, to keep individuals coerced into torching their own pile of cash.)
@sanae @daihard the argument in favor of policy which allows for short trips to be largely replaced with e-bikes, does need to be credited with the benefits of an overall healthier population with reduced sedentary disease, added productivity of a workforce that misses fewer days, there's quite a benefit to regular daily activity of moderate effort for 20min etc. IDK, cities not punching themselves in the face with anti-bike infrastructure just pays for itself so many times over. 💸
@enobacon @daihard I feel like it kind of plays into the stereotype that biking is only for athletic young people. This perception has been a pretty major barrier in getting bike infrastructure built. Especially combined with a perception that the purpose of bike infrastructure is to push everyone but the young and affluent out of cities
like one of the great things about ebikes is that they allow more people to ride bikes, including people who *don't* want to be getting exercise (or can't)
bluGill@enobacon @daihard Most people's doctors tell them to exercise more (except for a few athletes almost all adults need more). The question is how do we sell ebikes as an easy no excuses way to exercise? That might be just sell them as the environmental or cheap way to get around and not mention until they are already doing it that they get the health as well.
@sanae @[email protected] @enobacon This may not be in the scope of this conversation, but the question then is, how do we promote (e-)cycling to those who've never cycled for transport? To me, having relatively safe bike infrastructure is an absolute prerequisite. Explaning the benefits of cycling may be helpful, but without safe bike infra, I'm afraid it's very hard to convince the general public to try cycling.
@daihard @enobacon @bluGill Yeah, I think safe infrastructure is the biggest thing, that's the main thing I hear holding people back.
Another obstacle is people not seeing cycling as being for them. I think the existence of ebikes helps here. Until recently, I found a big segment of the bike community to be pretty gatekeepy, and despite being car free for years it took me a long time to ride a bike as an adult because I didn't feel like I could be a "cyclist"
@sanae @daihard @bluGill As an advocate, I can't really encourage someone to take up biking, in many situations of our current network, unless they want to become an advocate, the infrastructure is everything. For people who don't see biking as being for them (of course it is but infrastructure), there is probably an easier way to gain their political support than imagining themselves on a bike. The fiscal and geometric absurdity of how we engineer our streets for cars should be enough really.
@enobacon @sanae @[email protected] I'm with you both. As an advocate myself, I always have a hard time even thinking about convincing people to try cycling as a means of trnasport because of lack of safe infra in the Seattle area. And @sanae nailed it - e-bikes are a game changer in hilly cities like here.
Rob Galanakis
Leif Warner@enobacon For me personally a barrier to getting groceries by bike is having the nearest grocery store be across two of the most bike hostile streets (the Safeway on the corner of Chavez and Powell). The only options are apparently ride on the sidewalk, or take the (30mph) lane.
@pdxleif red lanes would make that a breeze. It's sad that PBOT drags this stuff out while trying to preserve as much car supremacy as possible, like just this enormous effort they make to maintain the same number of deaths whenever they make any changes.
Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐@enobacon Too much of the discussion revolving around disdain for ebikes centers the male perspective.
Women in our society are subject to much more stringent appearance and professionalism standards than men. The ability to arrive at my office on the other side of town on a hot Summer day and still be professionally presentable without needing a shower, a change of clothing, and a full redo of my hair and makeup is a key feature of my ebike.
@enobacon I feel ZERO obligation to satisfy some sweathog internet rando bikebro's paternalistic chauvinistic demands that I "exercise".
Also, I'm disabled. I have a permanently damaged knee from a rollerskating accident I suffered 10 years ago in Seattle (while exercising), and can no longer pedal up hills safely, let alone with a full load of groceries, briefcase with laptop and files, and handbag.
100% carfree for over 2 years now in Vermont, year-round, all-weather, thanks to my ebike.