😀🚲You know, if those trips were going to be taken on bikes without motors, they already would. #eBikes are the bikes that don't gather dust in the back of the garage, that actually replace car trips. Some people don't need them, but the people still in cars clearly aren't those ones.
It's not going to get someone into shape to feel defeated on the way home from the grocery store, trudging up the last hill with a laden acoustic bike. Many people are not going to go ride it just for exercise. An easy car replacement, even if you barely pedal, is going to get you more active than sitting in a car. I've heard plenty of these stories from people who were able to gradually get in shape thanks to the assisted moderate effort of regular e-bike use. It just removes barriers.
sanae 
(SF)@enobacon also like convincing other people to get exercise is pretty low on my list of priorities, people can make whatever transportation choices they like that don't involve messing up the planet I'm living on
Daigoro Toyama@sanae @enobacon There are studies that indicate riding an e-bike can get you as fit as riding an acoustic one, or even more fit. The main reason seems to be that as you said, an e-bike will encourage you to ride more and further, thereby resulting in more physical work than just riding an acoustic bike here and there.
@daihard @enobacon either way I think it's pretty unimportant. I actually think the focus on fitness is bad because it cements the idea that riding a bike is something you do for recreation, maybe something where you even drive your bike to the starting point, or as part of a niche fitness oriented lifestyle, rather than a way to get around. It also makes riding a bike sound a lot more challenging than it actually is for people who do not see themselves in fitness oriented subcultures
@sanae @daihard it's hard to strike a balance between talking-up the benefits in terms of public health and individual fitness without making some ideal of fitness seem like a mandate. Staying/getting healthy enough to easily climb stairs is nice, but there is also this pile of money we each individually set on fire every year just to transport our bodies and a bit of cargo (and then again collectively via the DOT budget, to keep individuals coerced into torching their own pile of cash.)
@sanae @daihard the argument in favor of policy which allows for short trips to be largely replaced with e-bikes, does need to be credited with the benefits of an overall healthier population with reduced sedentary disease, added productivity of a workforce that misses fewer days, there's quite a benefit to regular daily activity of moderate effort for 20min etc. IDK, cities not punching themselves in the face with anti-bike infrastructure just pays for itself so many times over. 💸
@enobacon @daihard I feel like it kind of plays into the stereotype that biking is only for athletic young people. This perception has been a pretty major barrier in getting bike infrastructure built. Especially combined with a perception that the purpose of bike infrastructure is to push everyone but the young and affluent out of cities
like one of the great things about ebikes is that they allow more people to ride bikes, including people who *don't* want to be getting exercise (or can't)
bluGill@enobacon @daihard Most people's doctors tell them to exercise more (except for a few athletes almost all adults need more). The question is how do we sell ebikes as an easy no excuses way to exercise? That might be just sell them as the environmental or cheap way to get around and not mention until they are already doing it that they get the health as well.
@sanae @[email protected] @enobacon This may not be in the scope of this conversation, but the question then is, how do we promote (e-)cycling to those who've never cycled for transport? To me, having relatively safe bike infrastructure is an absolute prerequisite. Explaning the benefits of cycling may be helpful, but without safe bike infra, I'm afraid it's very hard to convince the general public to try cycling.
@daihard @enobacon @bluGill Yeah, I think safe infrastructure is the biggest thing, that's the main thing I hear holding people back.
Another obstacle is people not seeing cycling as being for them. I think the existence of ebikes helps here. Until recently, I found a big segment of the bike community to be pretty gatekeepy, and despite being car free for years it took me a long time to ride a bike as an adult because I didn't feel like I could be a "cyclist"
@sanae @daihard @bluGill As an advocate, I can't really encourage someone to take up biking, in many situations of our current network, unless they want to become an advocate, the infrastructure is everything. For people who don't see biking as being for them (of course it is but infrastructure), there is probably an easier way to gain their political support than imagining themselves on a bike. The fiscal and geometric absurdity of how we engineer our streets for cars should be enough really.
@enobacon @sanae @[email protected] I'm with you both. As an advocate myself, I always have a hard time even thinking about convincing people to try cycling as a means of trnasport because of lack of safe infra in the Seattle area. And @sanae nailed it - e-bikes are a game changer in hilly cities like here.
Rob Galanakis