It's funny: Both Bandcamp and Patreon had the easiest and most straightforwardly long-term profitable business models imaginable: Sit between indie creatives and their fans, provide some basic services for mediation (comment sections, media posts, semi-global payment) and take enough of a cut of any payments to cover the costs and then some.
But because that business model wouldn't scale forever, they are instead being gutted, because ever _increasing_ growth is the only model capital accepts
Incidentally, this also harkens to one of those times that Matt Levine Doesn't Understand Capitalism - he's been repeatedly stumped by why crypto firms like Coinbase or Tether keep making risky bets with customer money when they could just.. Not do that, and still make a handy profit from putting customer money into liquid rate-making bonds and live off the interested (since the customers see zilch of that).
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@pettter I was disappointed to see it sold a second time to a music licensing company. Don't know much about them but hope they aren't there to change the way it works.
But Bandcamp is/was a great model and service to bands.
@pettter I read that today. But yeh as you mentioned perfect business. With a united workforce. But no one was thinking of the shareholders! Step one is always fire staff.
I just love the service and hope it can still serve it's purpose to the artists
@bovaz @andrewt @arcadiarhod @pettter
And some reaons might be simply things like loans, public grants, etc.
In most cases, you have to define a "scalable", "profit-oriented" business model to get funding.
A few months back, I tried to apply for a public grant to start a company that provides IT services to non-profit organizations.
The grant was about "social entrepreneurship" and had all the buzzwords ("inclusive", "social justice", etc.).
Main critique point in the feedback to my application: Not scalable "enough".
@sbi @vanderZwan @pettter @arcadiarhod
Most co-operatives fund themselves, or issue long-term bonds to raise their starting capital.
@sbi @pettter @arcadiarhod There's an entire cottage industry of crowdfunding platforms through which people have successfully launched projects that suggests otherwise.
If I'm a customer for the service they provide then that's a form of investment, isn't it?
@vanderZwan @sbi @pettter @arcadiarhod
I think the key would be getting enough critical mass of artists on, who would hopefully be networking with others currently on bandcamp. Also, bandcamp isn't bandcamp without the editorial team. You need people who just honestly love music writing those features, otherwise it's just ad copy.
You can do all that with a co-op, but it wouldn't be easy to get it self-sustaining, both in terms of organizing and initial funding
@jaawerth @sbi @pettter @arcadiarhod I think I get what you mean: you don't want a situation that is basically Monty Python's "constitutional peasants" played out unironically, right?
OTOH, I think the "passionate editorial team" part is likely easier to maintain in a coop than in a company where you know your new bosses are more interested in maximizing their profits than in music
@pettter I remember were some very insightful interviews with the people who founded Gumroad about what separates a sustainable business model from all the things VC-money entails and how as a founder it's quite difficult to disengage with the respective narratives and framing.
Also telling,how "lifestyle business" is a pejorative silicon valley framing for non-hypergrowth ideas.
@pettter This SO much.
The thing about the phrase "ever increasing growth" is that if you don't think about it at all, it kinda sounds remotely reasonable. Like obviously incredibly greedy, of course, but capitalism gonna capitalism, you know?
But if you think about it even for a second, it's just abject insanity; the need to not only consistently make a lot of money, not only consistently make incresingly MORE money, but the need and drive to always keep accelerating the speed at which the amount of money you make increases.
It's like the grains of rice on a chess board from the old proverb; it's mind-blowing there are THOUSANDS of people in the world who fully expect they'll just keep increasing their dragon hoards exponentially in perpetuity ๐คฏ
@pettter @BenAveling @maegul @shi forever growth is why both Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes are fundamentally scams.
Even tech companies must eventually slow to growing only as much as the economy as a whole at some point.
@pettter i have never used bandcamp...but now that i am dj'ing and would like to explore possibilities of making money with it...
where do i go if a place like bandcamp is no longer *the* place?
bc i dont know if using my website is the way forward since i dont have a following that is large
if you dont know, no worries, im just curious
@CaribenxMarciaX @pettter Maybe Qobuz? I don't really know.
If I start making music, I'll probably end up spread across SoundCloud, Spotify, YouTube, PeerTube, and Audius, as well as a website, a Gemini capsule, and a few socials.
Bandcamp is still THE PLACE. For now.
@civicDetroitDan yea fair enough
i think it's the way forward
@pettter i think the fundamental problem here is that capital that accept other models are eclipsed by capital that has to pay boomers pensions...
The rise of the 401k match boomers starting to fund their retirement and there is a reason it is that vast majority of capital markets today...
Drive by #enshitification
At least the @bandcampunited #union is there to hopefully get severance for people
And focus more attention on this shady shit than would otherwise happen
@pettter Let me introduce you to Tom Nicholas and his video on why Patreon and financiers ruined it for everyone.
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