CaseyDunham
Ned Yeung
Bastian Blankenburg 🤝 🛡@ned just tell them that you thought they’d be rather old-fashioned in this regard?
@ned I‘m also still disappointed that I never got an answer to this one:
Locksmith
apophis
Morgan ⚧️
LucyKemnitzer@raphaelmorgan @databu @ned I don't think this is true. I'm not entirely sure, but I did a deep dive into the history of kids' color coding a couple of years ago for a novel I was writing, & that never came up in my reading, which included both 2ndary & primary sources.
The pink-blue switch seems to me to have occurred earlier, in the 20s-30s. & growing up in the 50s-60s I can say knowledge of the pink triangle was rather suppressed postwar, rediscovered in the 60s-70s.
@raphaelmorgan @databu @ned Just remembering that baby dresses for boys died out very slowly over the 1st half of the 20th century. Until the 20s or so it was still quite common to move boys from dresses to short pants around 3 years old, sometimes later. In some communities it was a big deal, like baby's 1st tooth or 1st haircut, & involved presents & visits around town with papa. Those baby-boy dresses were often quite frilly & pink.
@raphaelmorgan @databu @ned I think honestly the main driver of the change was marketing! I saw preWW2 magazine ads, and more postwar, showing Daddy & "little man" in coordinating clothes, tweeds & whatnot.
BeeCycling has moved@raphaelmorgan @databu @ned I've heard this too, but it makes no sense to me. Queer people as a group weren't fully acknowledged as victims of the Nazis for a long time after the war. And how would ordinary people back in the US know about the pink triangle, never mind what it signified? Yes, they saw photos and newsreels of liberated camps, but those weren't often in colour.
I think it's a "just so" story, TBH.
Michael Porter@databu @ned There used to be a hilarious commercial on TV - for Interac, I think. The father is shopping for clothes with his son and dad doesn’t have enough money in his wallet, so he’s going for a cheap t-shirt. The son doesn’t like it because it’s pink, and the dad says, “No, no - it’s *salmon*, son! *Tough* fish!” 😄
(I think I liked it because my parenting style was all about rebranding. I once got my kids excited about eating bruised bananas by calling the bruises “sugar spots”)
Brett 🏳️🌈 
@ned I work in a library and I once overheard a mother tell her daughter that there were no video games for girls right after her brother finished picking one out and she wanted one too.
Ilona
Dr. Sobek@ned I don't get the ice cream stickers thing ? Anyone might explain what this means ?(and what's the alleged (probably inexistent) problem with ice cream and boys ?)
OmnivoreI guess excessive pastels can make a young boy gay.⁉️
(hope this link works)
Pictures of ice cream stickers.
phi1997
David Mitchell 
@sleepycactus @beecycling @phi1997 @Sobex
If tiramisu is gay then I don't wanna be straight!
@beecycling @phi1997 @ned Well, as a dude who loves baking and desserts, i am getting very offended.
I guess that in the month of Halloween, i should get out my pointy hat and magic wand and turn some people into frogs or newts.
levampyre@Sobex You get offended by people calling your desserts gay? Folks, homosexzality is nothing to be ashamed of. You shouldn't get offended by people suggesting your gayness. Even if they explicitely try to offend you with it. @beecycling @phi1997 @ned
@levampyre @beecycling @phi1997 @ned Not gay, feminine.
Desserts are for **everyone**. You get a dessert, and you get a dessert, and everyone gets desserts !
@Sobex Well, then substitute gayness with femininity. Being female is ALSO nothing to be ashamed of. Embrace it, own it! (That will silence those stupid idiots, who are trying to make you feel bad about the things you enjoy.) @beecycling @phi1997 @ned
Mx. Luna Corbden 🐸
forestine@ned at the custom t-shirt shop where i worked, i had more than one customer ask if the edwardian cursive font on a onesie for an infant would make him "gay"
Jennifer Kayla | Theogrin 🦊Clearly, those parents must head that off at the pass, by buying their infants a onesie with "Ladies' Man" in a font reminiscent of 1960s Brutalist architecture, because Manly.
eyajpng@theogrin @forestine @ned starting an Etsy shop of onesies with Zapf Chancery font to turn babies bisexual
That's it, the agenda!
Ben Rosengart@theogrin @forestine @ned And none of this poncy cotton stuff. Boy onesies must be made of lead or steel.
weird herm
Nuncio Bitis 🏳️🌈 🇵🇸 🇺🇦@weirdofhermiston @theogrin @forestine @fivetonsflax @ned
Like this, but in pink
Fanriya@ned Those kind of people said that WE erase the gender differences and so the otherness... But they're the one insisting that ALL boys had the same tastes and ALL girls had the opposite tastes. It's by erasing the gender differences that otherness can fully exist.
noodlejetski 
@ned gender was a mistake
Julescelt@ned The person upset about boys playing with toy food have never watched boys play with food! Lol
MadisonMonkey@ned I worked at a toy store part time back in 1989 and I firmly believe that young kids give no f&$ks about gender roles when adults aren’t around reinforcing them
SpaceHistory, etc@MadisonMonkey @ned I worked at a toy store part time back in 1979 and young kids definitely gave multiple f&$ks about gender roles when adults weren’t around reinforcing them (which was most of the time, because parents would drop kids off & leave for multiple hours). What do you think changed?
regenrohr@rlpaulprodn @MadisonMonkey @ned basically we grow up in societies that are strongly enforcing this ideas in media, role expectations and consumerism. there is no way to escape this on this planet. you cant blame the kids to follow suit in their respective ways. its tragic
🇸🇭🇮
@MadisonMonkey @ned Iwas a kid back in 1989 and 100% for sure did not give a single f about what "gender" toys were
I liked the Decepticons because their logo was purple. Starscream co-habited with my purple horse with brushable hair extensions and they were best friends with a Street Shark and they all worked at a Littlest Pet Shop as animal carers and fixed Matchbox cars on weekends
Texty the Bard@ned My daughter is 7 mos. old. Minutes after she was born, she was dressed in a pink-striped beanie with a giant bow. 24 hours later the nurses glued a small purple ribbon on her hair (I took it off. Ugh.) My mother and her sisters sent an absolute ton of pink stuff, including a baby doll that was about 3/4 of the size of her and frankly looked kind of possessed. I don't mind having a few pink things, and I'm OK with some shades of purple, but FFS. She's not a decorative object, folks.
MayhamMonday@textualdeviance @ned My favorite color has always been blue and when I was a little girl I refused to wear pink because of the whole pink is for girls and blue is for boys bs!
@ned
I forgot boys aren't supposed to even pretend to eat
I forgot boys aren't supposed to even pretend to eat
artisanroxi despise this nonsensical, dipstick, pointlessly gendered 🐎💩.
Violet MadderMy ass would get SO fired so fast... I can't self-censor in the face of this sort of madness. I won't.
@ned I was in a stationary shop one time and a boy was choosing a pencil case, and his mum made him put back the one he chose, cos she said that one's for girls.
It had owls on it. Not pink and purple owls. Not glittery rainbow owls. Just, ya know, owl-coloured owls. 🦉
TransitBiker@beecycling @ned birds are for vagina boob people?
@TransitBiker @ned Baffling. 🤷
mnemonicoverload@beecycling @ned How is the spoopy nighttime bird of prey a "girl" bird, even for someone who genders things unnecessarily?
@mnemonicoverload @beecycling @ned
Maybe just "bird" - less common as slang for "young woman" than it used to be, at least IME.
(Birdwatching tends to be a male thing, though some of that is certainly risk-management - tends to be solitary and a long way from help.)
@mnemonicoverload @ned Lord knows, especially when this was probably at the height of Harry Potter popularity, with all the owls in that.
Sir David Nielsen@ned @federicomena that snail robot sounds awesome and now I want one.
Corvid Crone@ned worked in a yarn shop in Manhattan and I would always try to dodge the customers making baby blankets because of the gendered nonsense.
I'll never forget, "is this yarn too girly for a boy?"
"Ma'am, the yarn is gray with pink, blue, green, red and yellow bits. I think it's as gender neutral as you can get"
And my personal favorite: "do you think this color is ok for a man? I'm knitting a scarf for my boyfriend"
Coworker: "what's your boyfriend's favorite color? Maybe go with that?"
@ned as a follow up, if you ask the yarn staff what color is ok for a man's scarf and they start directing you to hat patterns, it's because you clearly don't know your boyfriend well enough yet to knit him a whole scarf and they don't want you to come in crying next month with half a scarf done and no boyfriend.
Annie@ned I remember a couple looking for a gift for their son and the dad flat out refused the idea of a toy cookware set because he was a boy.
I wanted to rip him a new one but I also needed to not get fired.
I wanted to rip him a new one but I also needed to not get fired.
@ned this is the sort of thing that keeps planting a doubt in my mind if it's possible that very few people are actually inherently trans and our mainstream understanding of gender roles and identities is just so deranged, arbitrary, unforgiving and *narrow* that some folks are forced to identify as a different gender from their agabs just to get anything done
which probably arises from a conflation of a lot of things, come to think of it...
which probably arises from a conflation of a lot of things, come to think of it...
@apophis Yes, gender is indeed a construct of traditional society, and gender dysphoria is a side effect of those strict binary gender roles being forced on people because we can't all fit into these narrow boxes. The more we neutralize binary "gender politics" (I use that term ironically), the more people can simply be people instead of needing some sort of designation as a non-conforming genderqueer, and gender identity can become useful, and not forced. #gender #nonbinary
And of course the ironic part is that those who forced their mandatory binary genders on us are now saying we're the ones forcing "gender politics" on them whenever we fight to break down the forced gender roles which they put on us. That's the opposite of gender politics and gender policing, which is what they're doing. The goal is acceptance and dissolution, not enforcement.
Sidenote: I'm heteronormal and cis, but say "we" to mean those of us who aren't toxic.
RomanceReviews@apophis @ned I think about this a lot!
Firstly, it is super important to believe people when they identify their gender, no matter if that seems like a match to us or not and regardless of if we think people are being strongly led to choose one label or another (that cuts in all the directions. We have to treat people as reliable narrators of their gender experience.)
Secondly, *yes* the mainstream definition of woman is so fucking narrow! I identify as a gender non-conforming woman, the mainstream lane was too narrow but I'm just putting safety flags on my corners and carrying on tooling down the road.
Ferrichrome@ned As usual, it’s not the kids reinforcing gender stereotypes, it’s the parents.
Lokathor@ned When I say stuff like "I don't really much care for 'man' as a label", it's stuff like these customers that I'm really trying to stay *well* away from.