If you’re still on Twitter/X does that mean you’re a fascist?

No, of course not.

It just means fascism isn’t a deal breaker for you.

#twitter #x #fascism

@aral or you're absurdly ignorant but yep

@aral

don't you think there can be serious disagreement on the left regarding what constitutes fascism? Differing views on support for Israel is probably the best example. Recognizing this makes me extremely adverse to drawing these lines.

@wjmaggos @aral There is always disagreement on the left. That’s why there are seventeen variations on socialist parties in the US.

Current composition of what’s left of the bird site is MAGA == fascist hell.

We all agree on what we don’t want, at scale - fascism, capitalism, the status quo.

What we collectively disagree on is largely implementation and how to get there.

@wurzbacher @aral

I left. I'm all for everyone doing that. But imo the reason for that is more liberal than left. It's culturally important that we move everyone to decentralized systems where those we don't directly choose, have as little influence on our thinking as possible. I'd rather lefties influence people than Elon etc, but I'd rather nobody have that power. I'd also rather there be as free flow of info and opinions as possible. Fuck harassment but we shouldn't ban evil words etc.

Elon Musk 'likes' trending #BanTheADL posts as white supremacist ad runs on platform

Anti-Semitic rhetoric has been especially rampant on the platform over the past 24 hours.

Mashable
@wjmaggos “differing views on supporting Israel”? Mind explaining a bit, because Israel is a pure fascist, aggressive country. @aral

@rockabilly @aral

but some people hate Israel because they are antisemitic. are you fascist if you don't support BDS 100%?

@wjmaggos people hating Israel because Hitler did, are fascists and worth death. People fighting against and hating Israel, for being a police state, a racist country, and on an ongoing cruel expanding war, while they keep on occupying territories that shouldn’t, are my kind of people  there is black and white when it comes to fascism. @aral
@rockabilly @wjmaggos @aral the current leadership of Israel and the people who elected them are fascist, much like America when Trump was president.
@wjmaggos @aral it doesn't really matter, Elon is at the head of the table and on either side he's talking to his favorite people who are all promoting undeniably fascist, Nazi type stuff. It's a long pattern that goes beyond just Israel and antisemitism. What's a politicial ideology that is vocally against the left, against Black liberation and history, suspicious of Jewish people, biased against LGBT people, pro-capitalist, anti-socialist, and pro-military-coups?
@aral I'm increasingly frustrated with people who will talk about the need to build alternatives to capitalism and fascism who are still on Twitter and won't even look at non-commercial alternatives.

@aral There are reasons to maintain a presence on Twitter; life in an oppressive society requires compromises we'd all rather avoid, which is the point of oppression.

It's the refusal to try to find a way out that frustrates me.

@aral This falsely presumes that everyone uses social media for the same reasons and in the same way.
@aral “I’m not facsist, I’m just fascist-adjacent.”

@MissingThePt Careful now, there are instances out there that’ll block you for saying far less ;)

💕

@aral @MissingThePt
If they block you for that let me know so I can block them.
@MissingThePt "I'm not a fascist, I'm just fascist dependent"

@aral

Sorry I completely Disagree with your statement Aral!

If you're still on Twitter you are supporting Fascism so therefore if you support fascism you are by default a fascist.

You see comments like yours are what's wrong with the world. It gives people a way to duck and cover & hide their true beliefs.

Your comment is little more than gaslighting.

People in general need to say what they mean and mean what they say and stop with the wishy washy BS language.

@Mor696 First off, don’t paraphrase me and create a red herring to rile against.

Secondly, kindly go bark up some other tree.

(In case that’s too wishy-washy BS language, I’m telling you in no uncertain terms to fuck off.)

@aral it was for me a total deal breaker. Plus the racism antisemitism and misogyny
@aral
This is the Quiet Part Out Loud™

@aral if someone is pissing into the Atlantic on the European side, does that mean i love swimming in piss here on the North American side?

no, of course not

i evaluate what twitter is (or is not) based on what i see in my "Following" timeline

i detect something like 0.0003% piss

@rudy Congratulations on your detection abilities. It’s owned and operated by a fascist.

@rudy @aral Well, let me spoil the illusion for you.

What you personally see in your Following timeline is irrelevant to whether your usage increases engagement and results in increased ad revenue in such a way that fascism is financially supported.

You don’t need to personally see the trappings of fascism to support it, just (directly or indirectly) supply it with money.

@jeff @aral

elon makes money off my posts?

okay, that's fair

in return for which i get an experience i value, without actually seeing any of the fascism??

sweet

@rudy @aral “Not a deal-breaker” it is, then.

<plonk>

@rudy ah, you're not a fascist, you're just OK with it, as long as it doesn't come knocking on your door.

I believe Martin Niemöller wrote a poem about that.

@jeff @aral

@aral

While you're not wrong, it should be stated that not all of us are in a position where we can do our decisions without taking into account those of our reference groups.

Suggesting otherwise is very "yet you participate in society, curious".

For my part, I shifted what I could to mastodon, but full disembarkment from Twitter would just limit my ability to stay updated and work for change in my communities.

@iju Yeah. I kind of feel the same way. I mean I left twiXter awhile ago, but my account is still there in case there’s an emergency or someone sends me a link. I guess that makes me a fascist. 🤷🏾‍♀️
This whole narrative seems counterproductive to me. It certainly won’t bring people to Mastodon. 👀

@iju @aral I hear that sometimes when this comes up, but inevitably when I go and visit the accounts of those who say it I see a lot of posts about pop-culture nonsense or whatever people usually post on social media.

Not saying that’s your case (I didn’t look), but most of these people are using it for entertainment reasons.

@jeff @aral

You are welcome to check my "Posts and answers" -tab here: https://twitter.com/JuhoMantysalo/with_replies

During the past ten days, all my contributions save one seem to fall under ACAB, pro-left, pro-nature, pro-bicycling (the one expectation was related to Watchmen). But ofc now and then one falls from the wagon. 🤷‍♂️

(With hearts I'm rather liberal, as I like all the content I don't outright disagree with. But I've mostly blocked meme-accounts to not get manufactured dopamine.)

@iju @aral i dont understand the meme. twitter isnt analogous to an organic society, its an artificial system controlled by a fascist who wants to actively erase whole demographics of people, hence aral isnt saying what the meme is trying to express at all? there is no potential for democracy on twitter, not one bit - while there always is in an organic society. twitter cant be improved.

@edendestroyer @aral

I'm not sure what you mean, but clarity's sake (I hope I'm not too much off the mark here): I'm not saying twitter can be improved: It's artificial environment and the algorithm isn't getting any better.

That being said: not being improved doesn't mean that the environment doesn't have benefits in the form of users (political operators, scientists, journalists etc). On short term abandoning twitter is losing access to them, which isn't always viable/prudent.

@iju @aral i think the main criticism is the painful lack of an attempt to pursue alternative means of communication and platforming.

@edendestroyer @aral

Twitter is working less and less as intended, and competing services are looking better and better without actually doing anything.

As such, I'm not really concerned does Twitter collapse this week or next week, as the end is near, in any case.

What I'm more annoyed is how many are ready to jump to Threads (even if not available in many areas) or Bluesky (also not available). It's like they have something against free protocols!

@aral

I still post on Twitter because I refuse to let fascists chase me out of the public square. Also, it's big fun to to troll #MAGAts .
See:
https://twitter(dot)com/search?q=intercepts1a%20blocked&src=typed_query&f=live

@LevZadov Sorry, I can’t see them.

@aral

Create an account. Don't give up your data. Don't use your real name. Use a VPN if it will make you feel more secure. Test it for leaks. Chain two or more together if you want real stealth. Don't ignore fingerprinting:

https://www.whatsmyip.org/more-info-about-you/

Which OS and browser are you using?

@LevZadov No, thank you.

It is an algorithmically-curated centralised network. Your voice is only as loud as Elon Musk allows it to be. And by being active on there you are both legitimising it in numbers (which means more advertising money for Elon) and perpetuating the myth that you can carry out effective resistance when someone else controls the volume of your microphone and what you see and don’t see (you can’t).

@aral
First and foremost we must realize that both algorithmic and human moderation achieve exactly the same thing. Both limit what we can say and who hears it. Speech is no more free on Mastodon than it is on Twitter. On each platform there are things you cannot say without getting thrown out for it. Personally I prefer Mastodon's style of moderation to Twitter's, but both restrict what we can say. On Twitter, for example, I can't say what I really think of Elon Musk. On Mastodon I can't say what I really think of the Ukraine-Russia war. I'm OK with that. For each subject there is an appropriate platform. I talk about them there. What's important to me is not so much what I say, as it is what I hear. I already know what I think. I need to learn what other people think. I can't do that in an echo chamber.

If Musk actually starts charging to participate, I'm out of there, too. He can't have my money. In the meantime, it's to my personal benefit, and to the benefit of the anarchist cause, that I stay.

You don't have to post on Twitter to read what other people say. I've been shadow banned there for years. I've never had more than a handful of followers. At the moment I have a little over 700, at least half of them are bots. It's not a good place to make friends. My best friends there are ones I know from real life, most of them from before Twitter even existed. That's not why I post over there. Over here I'm preaching to the choir. Also, over here I'm only exposed to the opinions of other anarchists. I've been an anarchist activist for nearly six decades.

(See: https://kolektiva.social/@LevZadov/110269139479494358)

I already know what other anarchists are going to talk about. Anarchist thought is interesting, and I like anarchists as people (some more than others, of course), but we're an an extremely narrow slice of humanity and we talk about an extremely narrow slice of the human experience. I'm interested in the whole story. There's more to political economics than anarchist opinions. There's more to life. I want to know what other kinds of people are thinking. I don't get that here.

In real life, I'm completely surrounded by heavily armed Americans. I really want to know what's on their minds. Someday my very life my depend on it. And there's more to humanity than Americans. As an anarchist, I'm an internationalist by definition. While I am somewhat limited by only speaking English, on Twitter I am exposed to English speakers around the world. Where else can I follow grassroots reports and opinions about India, Nigeria, Australia, etc. that aren't exclusively the opinions of anarchists? They sure don't turn up in mainstream media. Grassroots opinions are the great lacuna of mainstream media.

When spent 26 years tending the counter at Bound Together Anarchist Collective Bookstore, I got to meet people from all over the world, and hear first hand and face to face what was really going happening on the ground where they came from. Not all were anarchists. A lot were just tourists, but they all kept me pretty informed. Twitter does that. Mastodon doesn't.

I'm far more interested in the reach of my ears than the reach of my mouth, so I don't care that a lot of people on Twitter don't like me or what I have to say. I'm both pro-gun and pro-choice, so you can imagine who hates me over there. Even the haters, though, provide me with data that enhances my understanding of what's going on in the world outside of the anarchist ghetto.

I heartily recommend that you at least read Twitter. It's like accompanying a graduate level sociology seminar on a field trip. If you don't want to post, don't post, but don't deprive yourself of the wealth of social data that Twitter provides. That's not the anarchist way. Anarchists want to know, and understand, everything there is to know on as personal a level as possible. As Bakunin put it, ". . . for work's sake as much as for the sake of science, there must no longer be this division into workers and scholars . . ."

Each and every one of us needs to study the vast humanity whose lives and cultures that anarchists purport to seek to improve. Otherwise we're just talking to ourselves in and endless, recursive, and largely irrelevant loop. Ignorance is not an option. We can't make the news not happen by switching stations at six o'clock. To stop up our ears and chant, "La, la, la, la, la" at the top of our lungs is supremely counter-productive. To achieve even our smallest goals we need to understand what other people think. If you don't like the news go out and make some. But first learn what we have to deal with when we do. Just a suggestion.

Levka (@[email protected])

As an eyewitness participant, I’ve somehow managed to Forrest Gump my way through some interesting events in anarchist and antifa history. I also tell stories. I’ve disguised sources and methods, of course, disguised certain locations, and changed a few names. Outside of that, they’re true stories, except for that parts that would get comrades in trouble if they were true, which they aren't. I made those parts up the most. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

kolektiva.social
@aral A fair number of people are there specifically to shove truths in the faces of fascists, science deniers, theocrats, etc. You don't have to give Elmo a dime or buy anything advertised. I know people who also post on Truth Social & Gab because a$$holes aren't entitled to live in their bubbles without confrontation.
@aral This is just "If you oppose capitalism, how come you have an iPhone?"
@aral @lisamelton yeah this doesn’t work. The USA harbors about 45% who would vote for Trump again. Does that mean I am ok with fascism by staying here? Let’s look at 1852, and let’s say I was living in the US… does that mean i am ok with slavery?

@IvoGatzinski @aral @lisamelton

I'd say that in 1852 you'd have direct and indirect possibilities to affect against slavery (and manifest destiny, which some might say was even a bigger problem).

"Just leaving" in an environment generated by majority just increases problems, though ofc there's not always a choice.

Also: above doesn't matter in privately owned platforms such as Twitter, where owners can change the algorithm.

(I'm saying this as a person with actively updated profile.)

@iju @aral @lisamelton What are the pros and cons of using xitter to fight nazis? it is not as straightforward just leaving…

@IvoGatzinski @aral @lisamelton

The short of it is that a large part of Finnish politics on municipal and national level revolves around Twitter. "Just leaving" or "not being interested in politics"is a privilege only afforded to those content, and/or happy with status quo.

Also "fighting nazis on twitter" is a bit flippant when one minister of ours got hoisted on his own petard during summer vacation for shitposting nazi imaginery, and more would go if the government wouldn't go with.

@iju @aral @lisamelton i would stay away from ranking genocides

@IvoGatzinski @aral @lisamelton

Which is why made sure to give them a shared #1.

@aral good post. Totally agree. Fighting for good requires discomfort on our part.
@aral It took a while but I finally threw in the towel at T**tter. I’ll have to find some creative ways to get some news from great sources that are still not in the fediverse, but oh well I shall live. Thanks for the extra nudge with your recent posts.

@aral

So, if you were banned from Twitter, does that give you 'Street Cred'?

@aral Hence, "sabot-age."
@aral Every time I open my Twitter account my activity literally costs Musk money, by way of adblocking and the Blue Blocker extension. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The BB extension in particular creates overhead that makes Twitter run worse and devalues the Verified program. I'm up to nearly 13k accounts.
@aral creo que tienes razón por qué mi carácter no es totalitario, antidemocrático, ultranacionalista y de extrema derecha. #LargaVidaAMastodon #ElsiglodelaIgnorancia #revolucióndigital  y el algoritmo de Twitter me bloqueó, ahora ya se porque