MonicaCanAug 30, 2023
Robert Reich
I refuse to tolerate a system that lets the 500 richest people add $852 billion to their wealth in the past six months alone, but doesn’t raise the $7.25 federal minimum wage for over a decade.
Aug 30, 2023 at 4:08pmWeb
Show threadStevens R MillerAug 30, 2023

@rbreich

In very round numbers, that additional wealth could have been $20,000 per person for the lowest 10% of America.

Just think what that would do for the economy as a whole.

Show threadSeán FenianAug 30, 2023
@stevensrmiller @rbreich I've been saying for years that the way we manage a lot of things in the US economy is stupid, starting with the way that whenever the US Treasury issues new currency, it is injected directly at the top of the economic pyramid where all the wealth already is.

If all that same money were injected at the BOTTOM of the pyramid, the velocity of that money — and its impact on the economy — would be INCREDIBLE. It would have to pass through every single layer of the pyramid before ending up in the bankers' pockets.

What would be better yet, of course, would be to prevent it from landing in the bankers' pockets AND STAYING THERE.
Show threadDarwin WoodkaAug 30, 2023

@zakalwe @rbreich @stevensrmiller

exactly, the money is supposed to circulate and encourage economic activity, not sit in some fat fucking billionaire's bank accounts.

Show threadStevens R MillerAug 30, 2023

@darwinwoodka @zakalwe @rbreich

Revolution's comin'.

Show threadLillian Gifted NDAug 31, 2023

@zakalwe

We have a pyramid on the one dollar bill. Representing, I guess, the fact the whole economy is very much one giant pyramid scheme. /s

Show threadSeán FenianAug 31, 2023
@giftednd heh ... I'm pretty certain that's not the original intent of the symbology, but you know, you're not wrong.
Show threadMajelveyAug 31, 2023
@zakalwe @rbreich @stevensrmiller love it.
Show threadDave VolekAug 30, 2023

@rbreich We need a new democracy.

#tiereddemocraticgovernance

Show threadBob WymanAug 30, 2023

@rbreich Why are there only seven income tax brackets? Every single filer with over $539,900 of income pays the same rate but rates are progressive for the less fortunate.

We should have many more brackets. Those earning $1 million should pay higher rates than those earning $500k and those earning $10 million should pay even higher rates, etc. The top bracket should probably be between 75% and 95% but kick in after $10 million/year or at some level even higher.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/2023-tax-brackets/#:~:text=There%20are%20seven%20federal%20income,for%20married%20couples%20filing%20jointly.

2023 Tax Brackets

The IRS recently released the new inflation adjusted 2023 tax brackets and rates. Explore updated credits, deductions, and exemptions, including the standard deduction & personal exemption, Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), Child Tax Credit (CTC), capital gains brackets, qualified business income deduction (199A), and the annual exclusion for gifts.

Tax Foundation
Show threadSlightlyCyberpunkAug 30, 2023
@bobwyman @rbreich I did some rather basic analysis of different tax policies many years ago and one of my favorites was actually a "flat tax". Turns out a lot of proposals for that include an exemption which can turn them into an *incredibly* progressive system. So for example you'd do something like 60% income tax, no brackets, no deductions...but the first $50k of income is exempt. So if you earn less than 50k, you pay no tax. If you earn 100k, you pay 30%. If you make millions, you'll be up around 59.9%.
Show threadBob WymanAug 30, 2023

@[email protected] @rbreich A tax isn't "flat" if it includes deductions. Your proposal has the same failing that today's seven brackets do. It concentrates progressivity on the middle class but is essentially a flat tax on those with high or low incomes.

As income increases, the portion of income that comes from economic rent inevitably increases. Taxing economic rent is efficient and non-distortionary. We should tax economic rent.

We need progressivity at the high end, not in the mid-range.

Show threadSlightlyCyberpunkAug 30, 2023

@bobwyman @rbreich All very true, but it is certainly better than the existing brackets and more likely to be accepted by the right since it's their idea. If 60% ain't high enough just keep going. Try it at 100% with a 100k exemption lol

(When I looked into these previously I had a big spreadsheet with the most accurate income breakdowns I could find, so I was just plugging in different values to see what it would take to get similar overall income from taxes with a variety of different tax policies that i had seen proposed. This was in highschool though when I was a bit less exposed to proper ideologies so I don't think I tried anything like 100% tax on millionaires. Also it is -- or was -- very hard to find sufficiently granular income data at that level.)

Show threadBob WymanAug 31, 2023

@admin @rbreich Your method seems focused only on raising sufficient revenue. Many people view the problem of tax policy in this way.

There is a view of the taxing problem that says we should be seeking a fair and reasonable allocation of taxes which reflects the different benefits of government enjoyed by taxpayers. Collecting enough money isn't enough. The tax system should also be fair.

One can be poor with little help from government, but being rich requires government as a partner.

Show threadSlightlyCyberpunkAug 31, 2023

@bobwyman @rbreich I certainly don't think taxes paid should be based on what people get from the government -- by that logic someone on food stamps should pay more taxes, and government employees should be in a higher tax bracket than private sector. I prefer the old "from each according to their ability; to each according to their need."

I do think that working with an income target is the only honest way to compare radically different tax policies though. Otherwise you need to propose not just the tax policy but also the entire federal budget to go with it (and probably include a comparison of how that same budget could be achieved under the current tax policy.) In these kinds of analysis it's generally best to ensure you only change one variable at a time. Taken in isolation, a tax policy where everyone just pays less is going ta be quite popular. Republicans were getting themselves elected on that (generally false) promise for decades. Everyone supports any way to lower taxes right up until it's time to pay the bills and you've gotta decide what gets cut.

Show threadBob WymanAug 31, 2023

@admin @rbreich Whenever the "Benefit Principle of Taxation" is mentioned, someone points out issues with taxing the very poor. But, it is rarely recognized that the income of the wealthy is just as, if not more, dependent on government as is that of the poor. One can be poor with or without government, but you can't be really rich without government support.

The government provides courts, infrastructure, defense, and much else which is necessary to enable and maintain high incomes and wealth.

Show threadSlightlyCyberpunkAug 31, 2023
@bobwyman @rbreich I don't doubt that if you're comparing a billionaire against someone in poverty...but what about two people in poverty but one has a chronic illness covered by medicaid? Should they have to pay more in taxes? Or even two middle class families with the same income but one works for the government -- do they pay more taxes? And when you start saying that tax rate should be tied to benefits received then you're implying that those who cannot pay the tax should not receive anything. That may not be your intention, but that's CERTAINLY how the opposition would interpret that statement. Which is why I much prefer "from each according to their ability; to each according to their need." Seems a lot harder to screw that one up lol
Show threadPeter GAug 30, 2023
@bobwyman @rbreich The whole idea of "filing the taxes" every year is preposterous to begin with. The government knows how much money you make because your employer reports it. Just have them use the simple flat tax formula and withhold what's needed and that's it. No more loopholes, no more huge government payroll going to the IRS. We'd need a full report where the money is going of course, and be able to vote on the specific large budget proposals.
Show threadungivisheAug 31, 2023

@peterg75 @bobwyman @rbreich that would partially work if you eliminated exemptions, but this auto tax pay arrangement would only work for wage earners

what if you were a business owner? it might not be so simple to calculate your net revenue biweekly or monthly or even quarterly, and even if you could, would you get refunds for net negative periods?

that would be even more nightmarish

Show threadPeter GAug 31, 2023
@ungivishe agreed that it's slightly different for a business owner or self employed person, however all these issues have already been solved in other countries. UK for example.
Show threadungivisheAug 31, 2023
@peterg75 I'll have to check into this, I'm actually interested to know how that works
Show threadLaustAug 31, 2023
@ungivishe @peterg75 @bobwyman @rbreich it works in Denmark.
Show threadPeter GAug 30, 2023
@admin @bobwyman @rbreich Came here just to say something along these lines. No need for brackets, just a flat rate percentage on all income over a certain amount. Of course, this will also require nationalized health coverage and heavily subsidised or free higher education system.
Show threadಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)Aug 30, 2023
@bobwyman @rbreich Better yet, define the tax rate as a normalized concave function of income and there is some cutoff beyond which the tax rate is 1, or 100%. Maybe an even-powered polynomial or even an exponential function.
Show threadlife mask (jeff)Aug 30, 2023
@rbreich unfortunately their global control is complete. 😳
Show threadMillicentTheMagnificentAug 30, 2023
@rbreich Where is Tyler Durden when you need him…
Show threadLucy WeirAug 30, 2023
@rbreich and doesn't end world poverty, and allows for the continuing destruction of old growth forests in Africa, Europe and South America, and allows for child marriage, and obscene cruelty to animals in farm factories, and to the continuing destruction of marine ecosystems? Shall I go on? I must go on. I will go on.
Show threadkevmateAug 30, 2023
@rbreich $7.25 is seriously low and living in the USA is expensive. Going to agree that the balance seems wrong. Not sure what you are going to do about it other than vote though.
Show threadsandywb14Aug 30, 2023
@rbreich Or feed its children, or house its homeless, or offer services to its mentally ill or help its veterans or provide healthcare to all.
Show threadOne World One PeopleAug 30, 2023
@rbreich TWW: The greater your fortune the more important it is to share all of it with those both suffering and less fortunate. If you cannot, you will wander from the path of light and find yourself tempted to oppress and corrupted by greed. *There seems to be some confusion between wages and wealth. My small house is worth 10X what I paid. My paycheck also increased 10X over time. The inflated value of corporate assets without liability is driving the disparity we feel. Peace. OWOP
Show threadSasyecatAug 30, 2023
@rbreich but however would people like Musk and Zuckerberg ever feel superior over others without all that money while others go without food?
Show threadKevinAug 30, 2023
@rbreich That's today fascist GOP; a party of the one percent.
Show threadlisatingAug 30, 2023
@rbreich Right! But we can say all we want about how we don't tolerate it, but we don't actually do anything about it. Better, we provide a solution to fix the problem.
Show threadKevcoolphotoAug 30, 2023
@rbreich okay. Whats the solution? A democratic majority? We got that and discovered that wasn't sufficient. The goal post moves. And a "filibuster proof" majority will never exist with all of the Manshuns and Sinemas lurking underneath. Do away with the filibuster? They're glad to use it as an excuse for inaction but don't actually want it to happen.
Show threadLillian Gifted NDAug 31, 2023

@rbreich

But how do we stop it. Not tolerating it means doing something. What is anyone doing? What can anyone do?

Show threadbona fide bustaAug 31, 2023
@rbreich You were the fucking Secretary of Labor for the United States of America. YOU DID THIS
Show threadCassandra -2024Aug 31, 2023
@rbreich
Teachers can only deduct up to $300 for school supplies, but Billionaires can write off their yachts. It's a rigged system.
Show threadWestTexasJesusAug 31, 2023
@rbreich maybe you should advocate abolishing this system rather than perpetuating a discussion that falls in the acceptable boundaries of the paradigm.
Show threadNgati Pakeha KuiaSep 1, 2023
@rbreich Our minimum wage equates to just over $13 US. $22.17 in our currency. ( NZ dollar)