BrianKrebs

Been dealing w/ a heart condition called atrial fibrillation for many years, and for a long time medicine kept it under control. Until recently. Was told that the new Apple watches will let you know when/if you're in afib. I already had an older one but all the literature said the newer was better at afib detection and monitoring.

I've found that while there were a few times over the past few months where the watch has alerted me to my heart being in afib, it's more the exception than the rule. Because apparently I've been in afib long enough w/out noticing that the heart thinks this is normal. Got a real heart monitor and found out it's pretty much in afib all the time.

Obviously, this is less than ideal, and we're looking at various treatment options. The point of this post, however, is just to say that if you're counting on your Apple watch to let you know if your afib is under control, you probably shouldn't.

Aug 23, 2023 at 3:52pmWeb
Show threadjoel bAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs popular tech company’s health products are like their weather apps. They are designed to make the user feel like everything is okay, not give accurate information.
Show threadDiego Elio PettenòAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs sending my best wishes, and an acknowledgement that way too many people think that a shiny gadget might pass for a medical device. Sigh.
Show threadAndrew C. WhiteAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Best of luck to you. Have dealt with that in the past myself. Not a lot of fun. Hopefully your cardiologist can find the underlying cause and correct it.
Show threadFemme MalheureuseAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs Thank you for sharing that, very sorry to hear you're experiencing more afib.

I've got a couple older family members who have afib, will let them know about this and situation with Apple Watches.

Show threadRooroo YanAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs there is just no substitute for a 12 lead EKG and a skilled eye interpreting the results!
Show threadDan GoodinAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs geez, Brian. Wishing you godspeed in getting your aging under control.
Show threadQuinn NortonAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs ❤️ good luck with it and i hope you have excellent and effective care.
Show threadprozacchiwawaAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs hope you find a way of treating it that works well for you.
Show threadCarl Liebold 🚀Aug 23, 2023
@briankrebs
I've had heart studies and a successful cardiac ablation with this guy, and he wrote a book on the topic. He is really good at what he does. https://www.amazon.com/Restart-Your-Heart-Playbook-Thriving/dp/1626347085/
Amazon.com

Show threadSekhmetMedusa🧿Aug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Thanks for sharing this! I'll give my sibling with similar issues a heads up.
Show threadCarl Liebold 🚀Aug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Also get one of these: the charts are very good quality: https://store.kardia.com/products/kardiamobile6l
KardiaMobile® 6L

Show threadCarl Liebold 🚀Aug 23, 2023
@briankrebs One last tip: apparently there is a very strong correlation between sleep apnea and arrhythmias. If you have apnea, and can wait, it may be desirable to treat the apnea first. (edited to reverse the mistaken negative)
Show threadRUCrazy2Aug 23, 2023
@VintageVeloce @briankrebs i also agree with Carl. I have obstructive apnea and afib. I can (somewhat) control my heart rate with meds (diltiazam) and the occasional trip to the ER for a cardio reset. But all this does not FIX the problem. Addressing nightly oxygen levels can be the most effective treatment without medication side-effects.
Show threadCarl Liebold 🚀Aug 23, 2023
@briankrebs I've actually had two ablations and a study, so three separate trips into the procedure. Really, the hardest part of the recovery is the wound in your thigh where they insert the catheter. They have special plug they can use (I think the name is Vascade) that you should ask about, it greatly speeds the healing. I only got the plug on the last procedure and it was much better!
Show threadRandall GrossAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs I also have afib, taking eliquis because it's just minor. The only thing that made my afib minor was my heart doc prescribing sotalol, which put me back into normal rhythm without the need to shock me back to normal.
Show threadJobu TupakiAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs 🙋 fellow AFib'r here! 🫀

obviously i don't know your situation ... although it seems to be different, as mine was paroxysmal (albeit escalating in duration). but fwiw, catheter ablation surgery was enormously helpful for me, and has almost completely eliminated my AFib.

regardless, i see you, and can 100% relate to your struggle with cardiac arrhythmia. wishing you the best in your recovery journey. 🙏🏻

Show threadUlrikeAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs
Fitbit also does this, but specified it's not for people who already have atrial fibrilation diagnoses.

I also don't recommend Fitbit due to their terrible quality control and worse customer support.

Show threadJason Petersen (he)Aug 23, 2023

@briankrebs I think the Apple Watch needs to have it under control before it can tell you it’s under control.

If anything it seems more for people experiencing transient/intermittent afib, and some of the features even point to this (I believe there’s a setting to swap from “alert me about afib” to “count how often I’m in afib”, though I remember it being billed as for people so often in afib the alerts are annoying, which doesn’t seem to be your case).

Show threadPatrick BurlesonAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs Hey Brian. My dad also had AFib. Here's hoping you can get it back under control.

As for Apple Watch irregular rhythm notifications, they are only intended for users not already in chronic AFib.

For chronic AFib, you can use AFib History to track how frequently you are in AFib.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212214

Track your AFib History with Apple Watch

Learn how to set up AFib History to track how frequently your heart shows signs of AFib and log life factors that can impact your condition. 

Apple Support
Show threadWendy NatherAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs I’ve had afib in my family. So sorry to hear you’ve been living with it for so long.
Show threadRaphaelAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Good luck and best wishes!
Show threadAtanas EntchevAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs Not directly related, but kind of related: My wife used to swear by her Fitbit and how it tells her how many steps she took and how many miles she walked. Until one day on vacation we walked together the entire day, compared Fitbits, which had of course wildly different results.

I measure my biking and walking distances by GPS, which in your case would be analogous to the dedicated afib device that your doctor will prescribe.

Show threadhackbyte Antifa (friendica) 13HB1Aug 23, 2023

Apple watches and smartwatches in general are not a medical device at all .. for good reasons.

They're nifty sensors which can give a clue .. but they're nearly useless against a real pulseoxymeter or blood pressure monitor and such...

It's a shame that apple actually was able to push their make-believe fubar that far. 🙁

@briankrebs All the best for you man.... Thx to telling ppl this one but important thing! ;)

Show threadDavid Schuetz ** looking for work **Aug 23, 2023

@briankrebs been there. (Still am). It sucks.

My watch has reported continuous AFIB for over a year now. Sometimes I notice it but most times either “I’m used to it” or the physical effects are somehow less. Probably a mix.

Working on losing weight and exercising more, but need to lose a bunch before they’ll even consider ablation. Not on any rhythm control meds and fortunately heart rate is good.

Show threadDoug MillerAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs Apple says here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208931

“These notifications are not designed for people who have been diagnosed with AFib.”

So maybe that’s why you’re not getting notified?

Heart health notifications on your Apple Watch

You can enable notifications from the Heart Rate app on your Apple Watch to alert you to high or low heart rates and irregular heart rhythms.

Apple Support
Show threadM.S. Bellows, Jr.Aug 23, 2023

@briankrebs My father was a general practice physician. In his semi-retirement, he occasionally performed physical exams at The homes of people applying for high dollar life insurance policies, and so had a portable EKG in his trunk.

One day, he told my RN stepmother he was taking a nap because he wasn't feeling well. She looked and said she didn't like his skin color and wanted to take him to the ER. He demurred, saying I'm fine, I'm just tired. ...
1/

Show threadM.S. Bellows, Jr.Aug 23, 2023

@briankrebs 2/ So she went to the garage, grabbed the EKG from his car, came back and hooked him up. AFib.

So they went to the emergency department, which was crowded. My mom said, I'm a nurse, and my husband is in AFib. Triage nurse: Okay, we'll get to him as soon as we can.

5 minutes later, my mom went back to that nurse's desk and held the EKG strip against the glass.

"Oh!" said the nurse. And two minutes later my dad was in a room getting help.

Show threadblhue (has moved)Aug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Good luck with your condition
Show threadLarry HAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs
I honestly hope you find a good treatment regimen.

Last week my Garmin Epix 2 watch gave me an abnormal heart rate warning. It was right after having a 2nd espresso that morning. Guess the watch is a pretty good coffee monitor.

Show threadQRSS_TestAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Sorry to hear that. I had an atrial flutter last year, and had ablation, which has prevented recurrence. Also got the Abbot Perclose plug, which was great for getting me healed more quickly. Best luck as you deal with it.
Show threadQuinn ComendantAug 23, 2023

@briankrebs Were you using Irregular rhythm Notification Feature (the default) or the AFib History Feature?

These mutually-exclusive options use the same algorithm, but only IRNF alerts, whereas AFib History displays % burden over previous weeks. AFib History samples more frequently with the algorithm adjusted to prioritize sensitivity. If diagnosed with Afib, use the latter, but you won’t receive alerts.

Buried pdf with these details: https://www.apple.com/legal/ifu/afhf/afhf-ifu-en_US.pdf

#AppleWatch

Show threadk cavaliereAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Good call. My heart is a bit of a mess. My readings are inconsistent in a medical setting. The last thing I'd trust is a watch.
Show threadShannonAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs This doesn't really surprise me to be honest. I have this watch too and it can't even tell when I'm standing versus sitting.
Show threadJim BrownAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs Did you have the watch set to detect irregular rhythm or to summarize percentage afib each week? The latter is for people who have an afib diagnosis.
Show threadJay BeaversAug 23, 2023
@briankrebs What monitor did you decide upon?
Show threadRich PhillipsAug 24, 2023
@briankrebs I’m sorry and glad at the same time. HOpe that you get it straightened out, really enjoy what you do!!! It was also a pleasure to meet you at the google conference/campus before COVID with my boss. Good Luck, God Bless and Take Care!!!
Show threadShark AttakAug 24, 2023
@briankrebs My 80yo father had it, they got him a pacemaker, a little metal box slightly smaller then a zippo, and it fixed his arithmia and too-low min heartbeat.
OF COURSE every case is different, but.. also like someone already said, check if you're snoring and having apneas.
Show threadFlying_Donny for democracyAug 24, 2023
@briankrebs I hope you and your doctor can come up with a treatment option that works well for you.
Show threadSeán FenianAug 24, 2023
@briankrebs Just sayin' ... I used to work at a meditech outfit that developed a minimally invasive electrophysiological technology to CURE, not palliate, AFib and sinus VT, as an outpatient procedure. The Pathfinder technology is now owned by Boston Scientific. You might want to ask your cardiologist about it.
Show threadtmtrainsAug 24, 2023
@briankrebs the watch can be set to watch for afib vs looking for arrhythmias in general. I’ve left mine in the default “look for arrhythmias” mode, and fortunately I haven’t had any afib reoccurrence since I got an ablation procedure done. My cardiologist has been monitoring me via a Zio patch and suggested and implanted heart monitor, which I might do.
Show threadÁngelAug 24, 2023
Apple gadgets are vanity apparel, not medical equipment. There probably is some line in an EULA or a disclaimer saying this, so they avoid being sued.
Show threadayemelAug 24, 2023

@briankrebs

Hopefully you can get everything under control soon.

I have a Garmin watch and it recently helped me find out I've had a heart condition since birth called Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome.

Wishing you all the best.

Show threadrangerwinslowAug 24, 2023
@briankrebs - crossing fingers that they can get you under control reasonably easily.
On a similar note, Airpod Pro IIs, by specs, are nearly as good as OTC hearing aids. In reality… I just have nice ear buds. They do fabulous at being ear buds. At helping me hear? Extremely marginal improvement. For four hours per charge. Unhelpful for a whole work day! Reminds my of my 3rd gen Watch, where it needed to charge daily. Got an off brand, twice a week! No A Fib detection though.
Show threadCosmic RaySep 4, 2023
@briankrebs
Best wishes
Expect the wearable will soon get better at afib. But wrist wearing seems less reliable than something with more points of contact. Used to run with a chest heart rate monitor, that never missed a beat