Mastodawn

Bread and Circuses

I try not to exaggerate or engage in hyperbole. I’m not attempting to scare anyone just for fun. I’m simply presenting what I have learned and telling you what some very smart people think about it.

Climate scientists are terrified. So am I, and you should be too.

As Greta Thunberg said, in 2019: “I don’t want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day. And then I want you to ACT.”

It’s time for action. We need immediate system change. No more half measures, no more Business As Usual.

Dreams of futuristic technologies are irrelevant at this point, and voting can't make enough of a difference.

The solution? Organize a massive long-term general strike and demand an end to fossil fuels. If the capitalist governments won't agree to that, then they must be removed. We can offer them an easy way out — if they're willing to take it — or we can do it the hard way.

SEE ALSO — https://climatejustice.social/@breadandcircuses/110543144632118488

#Environment #Climate #ClimateChange #ClimateCrisis #ClimateEmergency #ClimateAction #ClimateJustice

Bread and Circuses (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Here’s my dream… After the shocking climatic events of recent weeks and months — all the terrible heat waves, the fires and the smoke, the frightening reports of ice melt and ocean temperatures going off the charts — after that combines with what’s about to happen in the weeks and months ahead as our old familiar climate continues breaking down right in front of our eyes, this leads to a critical mass of people realizing it’s time now for ACTION, for coordinated civil disobedience at a level never known before. In my dream, you and I and everyone around us will begin stockpiling food and basic supplies and organizing voluntary systems of local community care in preparation for a general strike this fall. And when that strike begins: ⦿ No one goes to work ⦿ No one buys anything ⦿ No one pays any bills If a wide-scale action like this could last at least a month, or even better two or three months, then I think we *might* have a chance of getting our demands met. That’s my dream. CLIMATE REVOLUTION! #Environment #Climate #ClimateChange #ClimateCrisis #ClimateEmergency #ClimateAction

Climate Justice Social

🇮🇪 Wlado 🇪🇸Aug 1, 2023

@breadandcircuses exactly

Alaric Aug 1, 2023

@breadandcircuses I think you're right, but people are too content in denial.

Nemo Aug 1, 2023

@breadandcircuses

When Prager "University" did a video arguing that atheists should teach their children to believe in God, one of their arguments was that then they wouldn't care about climate change. The worst part is that their audience lives in the global north, which has the best chance of surviving climate change.

Sam Hardly Aug 1, 2023

@nemo @breadandcircuses

best chance of surviving? like this ... ??

Nemo Aug 2, 2023

Call me naive, but I don't see climate change wiping out all of humanity. The bad news is that the people who get hit the hardest will be those least culpable for the disaster.

Dave Volek Aug 2, 2023

@breadandcircuses

The graphic is right on: "Voting does not work." I have been working on an alternative democracy since 1997. Yet 99.9999% of activists believe that voting can work. So they prefer to keep the old ways.

I don't understand

#tiereddemocraticgovernance

neonyucca Aug 2, 2023

@breadandcircuses it’s terrifying. I was looking at houses for the first time in my life. A month later, I’m reading about the end of this ocean currents that’s gonna make England more like Alaska and closed all my tabs. It feels almost risky to invest in the future. It used to be obvious to buy a house when you can afford one. But I’m not so sure anymore.

Empiricism Aug 2, 2023

@breadandcircuses @TobiWanKenobi

Terrorists try to use fear to make people conform to their ideology.

But, anthropogenic #ClimateChange is real!

As a psychologist l completely disagree that people should be "terrified". That's generally the wrong message & will cause a "back fire effect" deepening many people's #climate denial.

We should be concerned & mitigating that concern by taking action, however small (not flying) or large (e.g., protests) that mitigates climate change.

Empiricism Aug 2, 2023

@breadandcircuses @TobiWanKenobi

The guy selling terror? or the guy selling a dream cruise ship holiday?
Who are most consumers going to listen to?

No wonder the industries are "winning" the climate "debate".

Please explain the optimistic solutions first, then explain why we must choose those solutions to prevent terror ( AKA a #ClimateCrisis )

TobiWanKenobi Aug 2, 2023

You're a psychologist. So, tell me, what makes people change their typical behavioral patterns the most? What drives and has driven people to act across history?

@breadandcircuses

Andrew Aug 2, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @empiricism @breadandcircuses

@empiricism is right.

Climate change does absolutely terrify people. It's a reminder of death, just around the corner.

So what's going to work?

We're in a completely unique period of history. Never before have we been so interdependent, so interconnected.

The challenge is the way in which we think of ourselves, and of each other.

Acting to reduce the fear of death instills the courage we need to act.

https://vocal.media/earth/is-humanity-doomed

Is humanity doomed?

Are we on an inevitable collision course with extinction?

Earth

Empiricism Aug 2, 2023

@v4169sgr @TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

Let's mitigate the semantics. Terror makes it hard for people to be rational (considerate, etc). Basically, terror "triggers" the fight, flight, or freeze response.

We can't fight climate change. Though we could fight those we believe are not on our side.

We can't run away (flight) from climate change (AKA denial), at least in the longer term.

We can't "freeze" (remain motionless. Do nothing. Don't change) & hope climate change doesn't notice us.

Andrew Aug 3, 2023

@empiricism @TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

Indeed. According to Ernest Becker, in his "The Denial of Death" (1973), and the subsequent Terror Management Theory school that his work inspired, mortality salience (perceived proximity of death = annihilation) is most likely to trigger denial (pushing away) or doing nothing (finding distractions).

This is exactly what has been happening. Fearful people consume more and ostracise more. They also look for 'heroes' to 'worship'.

[1/2]

Andrew Aug 3, 2023

@empiricism @TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

That this behaviour has been going on for some time should surprise to no-one. Climate change is just one trigger of mortality salience among many.

Given that the fear of death, denied, has played a major part in shaping our culture, according to Becker, then the question becomes: should approaches that are reasoned and gut-level to reduce the fear of death be applied by the individual, what then?

Would this be a more effective approach? [2/2]

Empiricism Aug 3, 2023

@v4169sgr @TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

I generally disagree with the line of argument in this thread. Fear of dying is why, for example, religious narratives or "spirituality" culturally evolved. Folk believe what they're nurtured to & or want to believe.

But, people are choosing to eat meat & use the most polluting transport options, for example, due, in general, to hedonism. In the context of a demand (& greenwashing) & supply (& greenwashing) economy, disinformation is the enemy

Andrew Aug 3, 2023

@empiricism @TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

Disagreements make the world go round, and diversity of opinion is beautiful

You may be interested to know that, according to Professor Becker - no fan of religion himself - a repressed or denied fear of death is responsible for both distraction from (hedonism) and outright rejection of the source of the reminder of death (disinformation).

From my perspective, it is both necessary and more efficient to tackle the root cause.

Empiricism Aug 3, 2023

@v4169sgr @TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

Physics makes the planet rotate. Opinions are generally ignorance therefore a danger to civilisation. You make the layperson mistake of believing that one professors idea's matters (refer to authority)

Now, if it was the majority of professors "ideas",, & those professors were natural scientists studying, for example, climatology, then that's a bunch of professionals that have studied & researched the general scientific literature on the subject

Empiricism Aug 2, 2023

@v4169sgr @TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

As for a general intelligence solution

Historically, many people, for many various personal & lifestyle reasons & situations, have not been engaging with the question of how? to mitigate climate change

Now the environmental effects of climate change are becoming more obvious, more people will be concerned (politicians have failed them)

But, we have to be "vocal" (in person, in conversation) to defeat the "business as usual" greenwashing "empire"

Empiricism Aug 2, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

Money in today's society. Also belief, & to a lesser degree the evidence (AKA facts)

Generally, in richer countries, most people do what they want, buy what they want, and travel where they want, if they have the money to do what they want. The majority don't try to self-regulate their general behaviors so as to mitigate climate change.
The effects of climate change will change culture's typical activity patterns the most (ecological limits on what they want)

TobiWanKenobi Aug 3, 2023

"Money in today's society. Also belief, & to a lesser degree the evidence (AKA facts)"

Ah, I see. That's a very modern-based view. It's not necessarily wrong, of course. But it only scratches the surface.

I'll give you my answer:

First and foremost: The wish to survive.
Second: fear (often in regards to failing to achieve the first).
And then desires/emotions like lust, greed, anger, envy etc.

Because modern people in rich countries usually do not have to worry about the first, the second has become more prominent. And as you rightfully stated, terrorists use fear, consciously or not, to push their agenda.

On a side note: Money is no driving force but just a tool to satisfy desires, I'd label belief under fear or desires depending on grade of belief but that would require a lengthy argumentation line which I'll skip here as it'd derail, and yes evidence or logic is relatively low down the line there.

Now, you said climate change is real. How would you assess the danger level of climate change to humans?
1.) Low (will eventually solve itself)
2.) Medium (mankind can adopt and mitigate)
3.) High (mankind will suffer losses but prevail somehow)
4.) Extreme (Extinction)

@breadandcircuses

Empiricism Aug 3, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

Under worst case, business as usual, climate crisis scenarios (multitudes of "positive" feedback loops), according to the science, the effects of climate "bolling" will be nothing short of catastrophic. Some fools think that's not a bad thing to happen (an excuse)

Socially, a full on climate crisis will take us back to the darker ages. Civilisations would fall.

Even during times of plenty nations war. During a time of scarcity, well, who controls the nukes?

Empiricism Aug 3, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

https://www.ipcc.ch/

IPCC — Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

Empiricism Aug 3, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

So, you said "you're a psychologist" but then went on to offer your opinion after l replied.

(Focus on) Evidence is the key!

So, rather than we go off on some narrative about "terror" management, let's actually put to one side our ideas that are not based on robust scientific evidence.

Terror or not, isn't the solution to change behaviours before the #ClimateCrisis causes more terror

Why did many people carry out genocide in WWII?
https://sustainability.masto.host/@empiricism/110825605611683510

Empiricism (@[email protected])

#ClimateJustice ? "Milgram (1963) examined justifications for acts of genocide offered by those accused at the World War II, Nuremberg War Criminal trials. Their defense often was based on “ obedience ” – that they were just following orders from their superiors" https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html #ecocide is being validated (public perception), by, e.g., the police, that are obedient to their "superiors" (told to arrest #climate protesters). The #UK Gov supports the oil industries. #psychology

The EcoVillage

TobiWanKenobi Aug 3, 2023

Of course I did. I'm free to give my opinion. Just because you claim to be a psychologist doesn't mean I must agree with everything you say, especially if "money" is your answer to essential questions of human psychology.

But I get that you're here to push your "terrorism" argument, so let me humor you.

Let's assume a group of people called A possesses a resource called X while another group of people called B possesses a resource called Y. Let's further assume 1000 units of X are equal in worth to 1000 units of Y. A needs more of Y to produce more of X while B needs X to survive. A is significantly smaller than B.

Now if A and B were to always trade X for its 1:1 ratio with Y, then it'd be fair, granted Y exists as an eternal supply, correct?

But what if A used B's dependence on X to not only lower Y's price but as tool to sow fear among B for pushing its own agenda? How would you describe A in such a case?

@breadandcircuses

Empiricism Aug 3, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

The fossil fuel Industries, associated politicians & general public believe their opinions are as valid as empirical evidence (AKA "science").

The thing is, if you become more scientifically literate (epistemology of #science ), you won't try to debate by using layperson rhetoric such as "just because you claim..."

You'd ask for the evidence, rather than offer opinion. Which one of my statements do you doubt? - l will reference the evidence (because l study)

Empiricism Aug 3, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

Maybe intentionally or not (a habit), you set me up by saying "You're the psychologist"

Only to refute my reply with your opinion.

Do you realise that to be informed you need to study the general scientific literature of the science of psychology?

No, your opinion isn't as valid. Unless that is, you back up your narrative by referring to the scientific literature.

If you're skeptical of what l wrote, be specific & l will provide the research

TobiWanKenobi Aug 4, 2023

🤦‍♂️

Dude, you literally tagged me into a conversation I wasn't part of, saying in your initial post:

"As a psychologist l completely disagree that people should be "terrified"."

So, what are you talking about? I do understand that you selectively read what I write, but at least try to remember what you yourself write.

Pushing your own agenda and wanting to berate people that they shouldn't "sow fear" cause that's close to "terrorism" is all fine, but it's embarrassing if you address the wrong people just because the real terrorists would never listen to someone like you.
The ones hoarding all the money, assets, and resources to enrich themselves while destroying this planet for their own personal greed aren't Bread or I. If you talk about "terrorism" then you should address them first and foremost. And if you want to talk about "sowing fear" then you should maybe take a look into all the right-wing media, who are sponsored by those terrorists.

"No, your opinion isn't as valid. Unless that is, you back up your narrative by referring to the scientific literature."

Survival is the underlying core of all human physiological needs (and thus motivations). I don't need to tell you to check Maslow's "A Theory of Human Motivation" or Reeve's "Understanding motivation and emotion" for something so basic and logical. Especially not if this isn't an academic forum but a social media platform.

But I guess it's telling what methods you use to discredit other people's opinions. Here I'll quote you to answer what right you have to insist that your opinion is any better than mine or anyone else's for that matter:

"You make the layperson mistake of believing that one professors idea's matters."

👋

@breadandcircuses

Empiricism Aug 4, 2023

@TobiWanKenobi @breadandcircuses

When a conversation ceases to be constructive, it's best to start a new one.

Fear is a motivator for many species. More humans will become more concerned & or fearful because they will see or experience events such as more frequent & more intense heatwaves, more forest fires, floods & friggin off-the-charts weather in general (Hot & cold extremes - location dependent)

The reason why many adults can't accommodate the evidence is because it frightens them