Nick LockwoodJul 31, 2023
With Google's latest move to lock down the web (Web Environment Integrity) I'm reminded once again of all the folks who've earnestly tried to assure me over the years that the greatest threat to the open web is actually Apple not allowing 3rd party browser engines on iOS.
Show threadIan McKellar
@nicklockwood @Migueldeicaza
Have you heard of this thing called Firefox that's not based on WebKit (unlike Safari, Chrome, Edge, etc). It's also the only major browser from a company that's not pushing an advertising network.
Jul 31, 2023 at 2:19pmWeb
Show threadNick LockwoodJul 31, 2023

@ian @Migueldeicaza gosh, that sounds amazing! I wonder where they get their funding from?

https://uk.pcmag.com/suites/128195/mozilla-signs-lucrative-3-year-google-search-deal-for-firefox

Mozilla Signs Lucrative 3-Year Google Search Deal for Firefox

In return for Google being the default search engine in Firefox, Mozilla is expected to bank $400M+ a year.

PCMag UK
Show threadIan McKellarJul 31, 2023

@nicklockwood @Migueldeicaza
Same place Safari does: https://medium.com/macoclock/safari-apples-hidden-gem-893696ce3dd0

But Mozilla doesn't collect user data for advertising while Apple does: https://www.wired.com/story/apple-privacy-data-collection/

If you care about privacy and choice (I do) then Apple is not your ally.

Show threadNick LockwoodJul 31, 2023

@ian @Migueldeicaza to be clear, I think it's disgusting that Apple has started putting ads in their apps, but there's no mention of Safari in that article - I think you're conflating Apple's App Store search ad business with web-based trackers (which Safari mostly blocks).

No corporation is the ally of any individual, but Apple's business model isn't primarily based on privacy violation, so I'll take them over Google. I don't have a problem with Mozilla but they're irrelevant.

Show threadIan McKellarJul 31, 2023

@nicklockwood @Migueldeicaza
I think you risk conflating Google's browser business with their ad business. I think Google risks that too - but Apple also risks conflating their browser and ad businesses.

Apple's business model relies on its close relationship with the Chinese government, which is presumably why they give the Chinese government to their users iCloud keys.

I tend to avoid companies that sell out their users to support genocide, usually.

Show threadMiguel de Icaza ᯅ🍉Jul 31, 2023
@ian @nicklockwood chrome is just a component of the ad business.
Show threadIan McKellarAug 1, 2023
@Migueldeicaza @nicklockwood no more than Safari.
Show threadSaagar JhaAug 1, 2023
@Migueldeicaza @ian @nicklockwood Everything is synonymous with the profit business. For Google that is equivalent to ads. For Apple that is a handful of things one of which is, increasingly, ads
Show threadMiguel de Icaza ᯅ🍉Jul 31, 2023
@ian @nicklockwood I hear you on China, but that hasn’t stopped Google from doing business in Israel or having development labs there.
Show threadIan McKellarAug 1, 2023

@Migueldeicaza @nicklockwood there's a big difference between having development labs somewhere (as Google & other do in China) and giving access to your users' data. I'm uncomfortable with all of these companies' engagement with countries that don't respect human rights. I've been involved in protest against my employer building data centers in Israel and Saudi Arabia.

But Apple's approach to their users data in China is afaik unique among Western companies.

Show threadMiguel de Icaza ᯅ🍉Aug 1, 2023
@ian @nicklockwood seems like an arbitrary line to draw in the sand. Happy for you or sorry it happened.
Show threadEric JenningsAug 1, 2023

@ian @Migueldeicaza @nicklockwood Apple’s approach in China isn’t totally unique among the western companies allowed to operate there.

Western companies in China have to partner with a Chinese company that owns the servers and has root access to them. So you either let a Chinese company with CCP representation on their board own the servers. Or you don’t operate there.