Charlie StrossJul 30, 2023
Psst: if you're on my crit list on Dreamwidth (closed, not taking new applications, thanks), you might want to check out what I just uploaded there.
Show threadCharlie Stross

Addendum: this is draft 2 of the space opera that, well, my elevator pitch was "Iain isn't writing any more, alas, so let's see if I can do something that makes readers feel the same way as his Culture novels without in any way being derivative of the Culture".

It's probably a failure on those terms, but I had to try, right?

Jul 30, 2023 at 6:11pmWeb
Show threadCharlie StrossJul 30, 2023
I will note that there is a lot more to the Culture universe than chatty starships with odd names: Iain was a litfic author writing in a space opera setting, so there's that.
Show threadCharlie StrossJul 30, 2023
A lot of people picked up the superficial furniture of Banksian space opera—snarky AIs, starship names, hyperviolent interludes—but missed the philosophical enquiries disguised as thematic elements. And few authors in the SF/F field are remotely as good at characterisation as Iain. (Shout-out for @aliettedb on that note).
Show threadDeirdre Saoirse MoenJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb My head initially parsed "Banksian" as "Banksy-ian" and that space opera furniture had some great snarky street art.
Show threadBrian EisleyJul 30, 2023
@deirdresm @cstross @aliettedb Well, I should *hope* that the Culture would have some awesome street art.
Show threadLazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈Jul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb better you than some well meaning fan unleashing a 'Fancy Autocomplete' horror on us all.
Show threadArthur WyattJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb I’m just gonna blow shit up with maximal amounts gridfire and condensed antimatter when I write a spaceship thing. Try for that whole “intense space battle as entire runtime of a llamasoft game condensed into a microsecond” feel.
Show thread❓ucblockheadJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb Case in point: https://www.spacelaunchschedule.com/space-news/where-does-spacex-get-the-strange-names/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CJust%20Read%20The%20Instructions%E2%80%9D%20and,separated%20from%20the%20first%20stage.
Where Does SpaceX Get The Strange Names?

SpaceX gives their barges, spacecraft, boosters and ship strange names. Where do these names come from and who names them?

Space Launch Schedule
Show threadSeán FenianJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb four words:

"Elizabeth Bear. Ancestral Night."
Show threadJames Davis NicollJul 30, 2023
DnD campaign idea: door to door sales. It's the party's task to venture into the darkest dungeons to sell house cleaning cantrips and spell book of the month club subscriptions to the entities within.
Show threadSimon RichterJul 30, 2023
@jdnicoll @cstross if each gelatinous cube just brings four friends, we could stack them into the most magnificent pyramid.
Show threadRob Thornton (“No Planet B”)Jul 30, 2023

@jdnicoll @cstross

The party belongs to an MLM (Multi-Level Monolith).

Show threadrandom thoughtsJul 31, 2023
@rthornton777 @jdnicoll when was the last time you did a background check on a quest giver?
Show threadJames Davis NicollJul 30, 2023
I don't know why the post above is acting like a reply to @cstross. It was supposed to be stand alone.
Show thread-dsr- (not a dog)Jul 30, 2023

@jdnicoll @cstross

So a space opera universe where it makes sense that door-to-door salesbeings are trying to sell you subscriptions to the Singularity.

Show threadDressToKILTJul 30, 2023
@jdnicoll @cstross on a long enough timeline, all posts are replies to @cstross
Show threadFábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕Jul 30, 2023
@jdnicoll there was a game I've playtested (still not released) where the players needs to setup a fake dungeon for some pesky rich man-child... Think on heist movies meets Disneyland! It was SO. FRICKING. COOL! because... You don't want to kill the idiot (no idiot, no money) but at the same time you don't want him to dicofer it's a setup
Show threadMax WainwrightJul 30, 2023
@jdnicoll or DND Jehovas?
Show threadpete_hardieJul 31, 2023
@maxwainwright @jdnicoll
Do you have a moment to hear the good news about Lloth?
Show threadVery Human RobotJul 30, 2023
@jdnicoll finally a use for Fast Friends!
Show threadAMSJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb I felt more for some damn wee knife-missile than the entire cast of some lesser works.
Show threadET CostelloJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb hard agree there Charles
Show threadVery Human RobotJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb
I like the strong examination of human good and evil, he did it really well, but the focus specifically on torture, comes back a little too often.
Show threadFirefighterGeek Jul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb Nothing makes me miss Banks more than when I'm reading Asher.
Show threadCharlie StrossJul 31, 2023
@FirefighterGeek @aliettedb I've been completely unable to read Asher because his political outlook is inimical. (Last time I looked he was not only a Tory, he was a climate change denialist. That was before COVID so I wouldn't be surprised to see he's a Brexiter and anti-vaxxer too.)
Show threadFirefighterGeek Jul 31, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb I haven't followed his politics, but he does seem like a kind of "dude do you even lift?" bro type from the few things I've seen him say/write outside his books. His fiction is so far out there that mostly I can ignore any political bias behind it.
Show threadAethylredJul 30, 2023
@cstross @aliettedb a lot of readers miss that all the squishy sentient biologicals are by default “human” and “people” unless they chose other terms
Show threadCoding Cottagecore BogwitchJul 30, 2023
@cstross not to mention gruesomely sadistic at times. But all anyone ever seems to remember is the ship names
Show threadSteinar BangJul 30, 2023

@forestpines @cstross On a side note: what has stayed with me, is his mainstream novels (without the "M").

The Crow Road is still a favourite.

Liked the BBC Scotland miniseries as well.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crow_Road_(TV_series)

Best opening line ever!

The Crow Road (TV series) - Wikipedia

Show threadRooftopJacksJul 30, 2023
@cstross are there loads of knife missiles?
Show threadCharlie StrossJul 30, 2023

@rooftopaxx No knife missiles whatsoever! Not even any AIs. There is some cute bioengineering, though. And a high concept: what is the universe going to look like in a post-science age (by which I mean, all achievable insights have long since been achieved, so there are no new breakthroughs, only stamp-collecting)?

At least the starships have notable names ...

Show threadSean Eric FaganJul 30, 2023
@cstross *blink* No AI? That's a change.
Show threadCharlie StrossJul 30, 2023
@kithrup Core conceit: "what if there's no singularity because AI is impossible, but everyone still believes in it as a matter of religious faith?"
Show threadSean Eric FaganJul 30, 2023

@cstross A couple of decades back at a worldcon in San Jose, I asked Vinge: Why does everyone assume machine intelligences will be *faster*?

I assume machine intelligences are possible, because the universe doesn't otherwise make sense, but that doesn't mean a Vingean Singularity is possible.

Show threadPaul "Princejvstin" WeimerJul 30, 2023
@kithrup @cstross that definitely leans into the zones of thought
Show threadCharlie StrossJul 30, 2023
@kithrup Same: machine intelligence may be possible, but it may not be achievable by human intelligence. After all, we're no smarter than the minimum needed to retain collective knowledge and develop technology. Almost all of us ride the coat-tails of those at the extreme end of the bell curve. Getting AI from human-I might be like trying to fuel a nuclear fission reactor using unenriched natural uranium (at today's prevailing isotope ratio).
Show threadClifton RoystonJul 30, 2023

@cstross @kithrup

One of the elements of the webcomic Questionable Content I like very much is its treatment of AI:
* A few brilliant people invented AI, but they still really don't know how and nobody understands how it works.
* Neither do the AIs.
* Most of the AIs don't think significantly faster than people, because there are so many emergent layers of processing involved that slow it all down.
* They're no better at math than us, for the same reason.
(continued)

Show threadClifton RoystonJul 30, 2023

@cstross @kithrup

* Many of them are struggling with a sense of identity.
* A lucky few enjoy being toasters or industrial machinery.
* The majority however have modeled themselves on humans, and human presentation, so they have to try to figure out how our identity works (good luck!) and work through all our issues too.
* ... including sexuality and gender presentation.
* The very few AIs that *are* smarter or faster than humans have trouble communicating either with humans or other AI.

Show threadAaron V. HumphreyJul 30, 2023
@CliftonR @cstross @kithrup
Yeah, I tend to think that emergent AI is not necessarily going to be that different from human minds except that it'll be easier to wire it for Internet access.
Show threadSpeakerToManagersJul 31, 2023
@cstross @kithrup
I tend to think machine intelligence can come in a lot of different flavors, different from human too, but again, comparing intelligence is hard (IQ is a mug’s game) because there are so many moving parts. Maybe one type of AI would be able to recognize visual patterns far better than humans (humans can distinguish different 1st order Markov chains, but not 2nd order & higher) but that wouldn’t mean better verbal comprehension or personal interactions.
Show threadSean Eric FaganJul 31, 2023

@cstross I suspect the only way we're going to get human-level (or above) machine intelligence is to start by making much smaller intelligences, and then scaling that up -- and trying to teach it. I suspect that route will result in mostly failures, and the occasional insane one.

But, of course, then I go back to my standard "define intelligence in an objective and testable way" comment.

Show threadOrcJul 31, 2023
@kithrup @cstross (doubly true now that dumb LLMs exist and absorb terrifying amounts of power just to produce a stochastic parrot; even if consciousness can be layered over this you're still talking something that needs a large staff & a hydroelectric dam just to stay alive.)
Show threadLisPiJul 31, 2023
@orc @kithrup @cstross Certainly kind of a major efficiency disappointment when meat brains take a small fraction of that to do more.
Show threaddr2chaseAug 1, 2023
@lispi314 @orc @kithrup @cstross
There's room for architectural improvement, not sure if there's enough room. My theorem, which is mine, is that in the optimization quest to save power in AI computations, we will reinvent all the human cognitive errors (which are, more or less, mental shortcuts gone wrong). (I really do want my name on this one.)
Show threadMarc EtienneJul 31, 2023

@cstross @kithrup I'm already sold. This is why I read speculative fiction, not for the space opera trappings.

Though the trappings are also nice.

Show threadGirl Lich 🏳️‍⚧️⚢💀Jul 31, 2023

@cstross

Sounds like the people who still wrote novels with the Soviet Union as a villain right into the 1990

Show threadCharlie StrossJul 31, 2023

@a There was a real glut of those books on the market, slowly percollating into print, from 1991-95!

Trad publishing is s-l-o-w.

Show threadRob LandleyAug 1, 2023

@cstross @kithrup The theory behind AI was always that the Moore's law s-curve wouldn't bend down for silicon until after it did for carbon, with a few centuries of directed engineering surpassing billions of years of evolution, before we hit atomic limits or speed of light signal propagation along finite trace lengths...

It's the "Gray Goo" feedback loop again. Slime molds are yellow goo and they have limits: energy, materials, predators.

(Dunning Krueger is Freddy's sister.)

Show threadSean Eric FaganAug 1, 2023

@landley @cstross That is a lovely explanation.

(Not saying I fully agree with it, but it is *at least* plausible.)

Show threadRob LandleyAug 1, 2023
@kithrup @cstross Exponential growth is always an s-curve. It bends down again at some point. You'd think we'd teach this in middle school alongside spelling and the basic muffin recipe, but no...
Show threadFadeAug 2, 2023
@landley @kithrup @cstross I didn't get the basic muffin recipe in middle school, and feel like I missed out.
Show threadRob LandleyAug 2, 2023

@fade @kithrup @cstross Neither did I, I just think we _should_.

Instead they re-explained what a gerund was in 5th grade, 6th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade, 9th grade, and 10th grade.

Show threadSpeakerToManagersJul 31, 2023
@cstross @rooftopaxx
It might very well be that there are kinds of complex adaptive systems, either biological or machine very different from the ones humans have discovered to date. This may seem like stamp collecting to a physicist, but it could be paradigm-changing to a complexity theorist, an astrobiologist, or a computer scientist.
Show threadCharlie StrossJul 31, 2023
@SpeakerToManagers @rooftopaxx Yes. But now sum the combined efforts of ten million planetary civilizations over two thirds of a million years …
Show threadSpeakerToManagersJul 31, 2023
@cstross @rooftopaxx
Point taken. If civilization has had time to do a quick survey of all of the planetary systems, a significant sample of the rogue planet population and of the white dwarf population (looking for older civilizations’ Dyson spheres {you can build a complete sphere around a white dwarf with physically attainable materials}) there should be a good chance that they haven’t missed anything. I can see their journal articles arguing whether they have 5-sigma significance or not.
Show threadRooftopJacksJul 31, 2023
@SpeakerToManagers @cstross post-science we may never know
Show thread7leaguebootdisk𓅽Jul 30, 2023
@rooftopaxx @cstross I mean, we have those now. AGM-114R9X
Show threadGuitarsophistJul 30, 2023
@cstross I taught Excession once in a science fiction course. It had too many big ideas, too many characters, and too many plot lines for most of my students to follow. But the plots come together and at the core of it all is a ship mind that deeply cares for a particular human and is willing to risk a great deal to try to repair a relationship amidst a swirl of events that not only threatens the Culture, but the universe itself. I suppose that the plot is a bit like Casablanca, but it's great!
Show threadNick Stevens GraphicsJul 30, 2023

@cstross

I'm certainly glad someone is trying!

Show thread❓ucblockheadJul 30, 2023

@cstross Better to shoot for the impossible than stagnate.

Also, now you made me sad. :-(

Show threadGraydonJul 30, 2023
@cstross "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?"