Brian KrohneJul 29, 2023
I've been pondering the posts by @kissane and @siderea about 'not finding your people' #OnHere and am wondering if sentiments toward fediverse-wide #FullTextSearch have shifted at all. I know this has been implemented several times, and then been graciously shut down by developers who listened to community feedback.
#Mastodon #Fulltext #Search
From US - want opt-out fulltext search
37.3%
From US - DO NOT want opt-out fulltext search
13.6%
From Europe - want opt-out fulltext search
33.1%
From Europe - DO NOT want opt-out fulltext search
16.1%
Poll ended at .
Show threadVyr Cossont 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Jul 29, 2023
@siderea @kissane @krohne what the hell's wrong with opt-*in* full-text search
Show threadBrian KrohneJul 29, 2023
I think opt-in search is great. I have signed up for @buercher's #TootFinder, but few people have. What if something like that was the default search in the UI, and people were encouraged opt-in when they signed up?
Show threadVyr Cossont 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

@krohne enshrining some third-party rando in the signup flow is not the way to do this.

the way to do this is to have a standard way to explicitly mark posts as searchable, the same way that Mastodon and several other Fedi servers already have a `discoverable` flag that explicitly marks accounts as searchable. that way, *any* search engine has a way of knowing what people have volunteered for.

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/23808 unfortunately, the effort to patch this into Mastodon has stalled out.

Add setting to explicitly consent to full-text search indexing of public posts by ClearlyClaire · Pull Request #23808 · mastodon/mastodon

NOTE: This PR does not implement the search functionality itself, just a framework to express explicit consent for posts to be indexed Mastodon has historically refused to provide full-text search ...

GitHub
Jul 29, 2023 at 2:35pmWeb
Show threadBrian KrohneJul 29, 2023
A per-toot search opt is really interesting. I think that could work well with setting your search preferences during the on-boarding process (e.g. by default my toots should be [ ] Searchable [ ] Not Searchable)
Show threadErin KissaneJul 29, 2023
@krohne This is 100% my preferred implementation fwiw. Set an account default and have per-post controls. Onboarding needs a really nice visual wizardy walkthrough as well, god help us.
Show threadKudra Aug 25, 2023
@kissane @krohne the onboarding for #FireFish is so much better - really much more user friendly.
Show threadVyr Cossont 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Jul 29, 2023

@krohne if we don't build something like this, "is this post set to public visibility" is the only intent signal to work with, and searching all public posts surprises Mastodon users.

(and only Mastodon users. "public = searchable" is the rule for full-text search implementations on most other Fedi servers that have it, except for GotoSocial.)

Show threadVyr Cossont 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Jul 29, 2023
@krohne UX-wise, agreed that there should be an opt-in button in the signup flow. you should be able to switch this on easily. but it should never be switched on for you.
Show threadSiderea, Sibylla BostoniensisAug 3, 2023

@vyr
> the way to do this is to have a standard way to explicitly mark posts as searchable

Man, the problem I have with this is I don't want to mark my posts either universally searchable or not universally searchable. I want to be able to pick and choose which search engines I allow to index my content!

As a side note, part of why I would like to have that option is that I can imagine a little social movement where people in the Fediverse decide to make a point of not letting Google Search index their posts, gravitating some other search engine, thereby giving that search engine a commercial advantage over Google Search, at least for searching the Fediverse.

@krohne

Show threadVyr Cossont 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Aug 3, 2023
@siderea @krohne hi, not a man
Show threadSiderea, Sibylla BostoniensisAug 3, 2023

@vyr Oh, sorry, I wasn't aiming that at you, I meant in the other rhetorical sense of "oh man".

@krohne

Show threadVyr Cossont 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Aug 3, 2023

@siderea @krohne yeah well don't get any of your rhetoric on my gender, thanks, i just got it the way i like it 😝

anyway, controlling how posts get exposed to web scrapers like Google is a related but different issue. specifically, you first have to somehow have enough leverage with Google to get them to agree to whatever scheme you propose, because they don't care about ActivityPub as such. they only see web pages, and those web pages are rendered by a dozen kinds of Fediverse server, and right now, even clicking the "hide me from search engines box" doesn't work 100% on your local instance, let alone once your posts leave it.

Show threadVyr Cossont 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Aug 3, 2023
@krohne @siderea meanwhile, the most commonly deployed opt-in scheme across the Fediverse right now is "if you post with public visibility, you are opting into everything", and if nobody comes up with anything better, that's going to crystallize.