GrantCan anyone think of a scenario where animal derived products are used by people in a non-exploitative way?
#Vegan #vegetarian
#Vegan #vegetarian
Anushka@Bandicoot Animal rights philosopher, Gary Francione argues: “If animals are not just things, but sentient nonhuman persons who have moral value, as most people believe, then we cannot treat them as resources however supposedly “humanely” we treat them. There is veganism and there is animal exploitation. There is no third choice. If you are not vegan you are participating directly in animal exploitation.”
Smit@Bandicoot I think milking venom from snakes as we use it to save lives of other animals
@smit
Yes, I'm thinking manure for the garden is non-exploitative as well? Not blood and bone! But animal poo. 😄
Yes, I'm thinking manure for the garden is non-exploitative as well? Not blood and bone! But animal poo. 😄
neutronwranglerI like to think that #beekeeping can be. We give them shelter and remove excess honey and wax, etc. There are bad beekeepers that take too much and replace it with poor quality sugar of course
Seitansbraten@neutronwrangler @Bandicoot Excess...there is no excess. Bees are not interested in working for 'excess', so no. Not honey.
@Seitansbraten
I see that argument, we artificially expand their cavity to encourage honey production over swarming
@Bandicoot
I see that argument, we artificially expand their cavity to encourage honey production over swarming
@Bandicoot
@neutronwrangler
Yes I understand that argument. I have made similar suggestions and got jumped on by vegans.
I guess the basis for your suggestion is that there is potential for a 2 way beneficial interspecies relationship which is not exploitative? Vegans will say no, but perhaps that works to draw an artificial line between us and other species?
Just speculating.
Yes I understand that argument. I have made similar suggestions and got jumped on by vegans.
I guess the basis for your suggestion is that there is potential for a 2 way beneficial interspecies relationship which is not exploitative? Vegans will say no, but perhaps that works to draw an artificial line between us and other species?
Just speculating.
@Bandicoot
The counter argument is that it is non-consensual. We have a hive, the white one in my profile in fact, which has become unopenable because the bees have built so much cross comb in the roof that to disassemble it would destroy the colony.
The ultimate bees revenge I guess. It will sit there, firing swarms across the valley every year because it is full
@neutronwrangler
Yes I guess consent is an issue. Although informed consent from bees?
Is consent also an issue with domestic pets?
Yes I guess consent is an issue. Although informed consent from bees?
Is consent also an issue with domestic pets?
@Bandicoot
Well, we will never know. Our cats are free to leave at any time they like. Our goat, which we got (from a meat farm) to clear an overgrown meadow, not so much. Incidentally a disaster, goats will eat anything but goats will not eat everything.
Well, we will never know. Our cats are free to leave at any time they like. Our goat, which we got (from a meat farm) to clear an overgrown meadow, not so much. Incidentally a disaster, goats will eat anything but goats will not eat everything.
Matti in SL@Bandicoot Maybe eggs from home-raised backyard free-range hens?
@MattiSL
Yes, but vegans would still class this as exploitative.
I tend to agree with you though. Hens get food, shelter and space to scratch and forage. In return we collect the unfertilized eggs which they leave unattended. Seems pretty fair to me.
Yes, but vegans would still class this as exploitative.
I tend to agree with you though. Hens get food, shelter and space to scratch and forage. In return we collect the unfertilized eggs which they leave unattended. Seems pretty fair to me.