Master Beef Producer
Ken WhiteMay 2024 is a very reasonable, perhaps a bit fast, trial date for Trump’s case. Don’t let people who don’t know what they are talking about tell you otherwise.
Pēteris Krišjānis@Popehat if yes, meltdown of GOP might reach dangerous levels after loss in November. Country will have to answer how they want to continue.
Steve Portigal@Popehat "but it's longer than I want to wait!"
Seán Fenian@Popehat I just worry about Trump stalling until after the election, winning the election, and then the Republican Party conspiring to make him emperor-for-life in all but name and just making it all go away. It truly seems as though today's Republican Party thinks of the Constitution as an obsolete and irrelevant obstacle to their power.
@rwhit @Popehat The first amendment doesn't give you a right to shout "FIRE!" in a crowded theater just for your amusement. And the Second doesn't grant you a right to go shoot up a school or a hospital because you're mad at somebody or hate your life. The trouble is the zealots on the right think any effort to stop idiots from shooting up schools, hospitals or shopping malls is an infringement on "MUH FREEDOMS".
Kevin Hardiman@zakalwe @[email protected] @[email protected] recommended reading, authored by the poster of this thread: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/free-speech-cliches-media-should-stop-using/596506/
@kevin_hardiman @[email protected] @[email protected] interesting background.
The point remains though that neither the First nor the Second amendment confers an absolute protection with no exceptions.
The point remains though that neither the First nor the Second amendment confers an absolute protection with no exceptions.
Tom Bellin 
@Popehat For someone credibly accused of mishandling top secret government documents (and possibly committing treason), he's obviously getting the kid gloves.
And there's something *off* about the accused having nominated the judge in his case to their position. (Trump nominated *a lot* of judges).
Having said that, it seems Cannon's decision is within the range of "normal" outcomes and isn't favorable for Trump.
@tob It may be “off” in your visceral reaction, but legally, it is unequivocally a non-issue under clearly established law.
@Popehat Right. It's an inevitable outcome of the election of a criminal to the Presidency.
There's nothing to be done at this point but grit our teeth and hope that Cannon rises above partisanship.
Oakmarie@marie_k @Popehat @_L1vY_ Under CJ Roberts, it seems the entire edifice of "avoiding the appearance of impropriety" has been tossed aside in favor of "do what you will and damn the critics."
on the other hand, a judge choosing a compromise between the position of the prosecution and the defense is not abnormal.
Staid Winnow@staidwinnow @tob @Popehat @_L1vY_ She was arrested and incarcerated in 2017 an denied bail twice before being convicted in 2018.
pcbeard@marie_k @staidwinnow @tob @Popehat @_L1vY_ a year in jail would give him plenty of time to campaign.
John Minnihan@Popehat yeah, 10 months seems abt right.
time flies when you're having fu... reading docs, making copies, checking extradition treaties etc
mike bayer 
Conlan Spangler@Popehat Don't let “people who don't know what they are talking about" tell me bullshit? How dare you attack the very foundational purpose of the internet.
LeftOfKarlMarx
Lizard@Popehat OK. But, what are the odds Trump will, one day before the trial is due to start, say "But look, now I are biggliest front runner for GOP nomination, that is proving of me being so amazingly special it's a communist fascist witch hunt to have me stop holding rallies where I demand my followers prove their love for me by killing Jack Smith?"
More importantly, what are the odds Canon will say "Sure, that makes sense", triggering a series of delays and appeals until Trump can pardon himself?
John Cutting@Popehat
You're right. Mendacious people are going to be mendacious, but it's important to arm ourselves with what is normal jurisprudence.
You're right. Mendacious people are going to be mendacious, but it's important to arm ourselves with what is normal jurisprudence.
Slim@Popehat I, admittedly, don’t know much about the justice system, but a trial date 22 months after the search of Mar-a-Lago seems like a long time
@Slim1023 @Popehat There's people who wait far longer, usually in prison, for trials. TV has created this weird idea that a suspect arrested on Monday is in court on Tuesday, Wednesday at the very latest. The Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter committed mass murder in 2018 and was just tried a few weeks ago, and that's a (legally) far simpler case, with a defendant with far less ability to throw sand in the gears of the system.
And if Trump was tossed in prison after the MAL raid and his trial didn't happen for years, the way it is for most people who commit far less serious crimes, that's be one thing. But Trump is correct there's a 2-tiered justice system, and he's firmly in the upper tier.
Maybe Later Son@Popehat But I don't wanna wait 😭😭😭😭
Jeff_the_Geek@Popehat I guess the thing for me comes back to what I've always said:
There was too long a time BEFORE these crimes were charged. That's the real delay in this case.
It may be a "normal" amount of time for most investigations, but that neglects the simple fact that these are NOT LIKE most investigations
Oreo Teeth@Popehat When I read about the huge volume of papers and video footage I thought we'd have to wait at least a year for the trial.
Coyote of the Stars@Popehat I'm still mad. I feel like justice will never come to that man.
Rob Honeycutt"The moral arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice."
Urzl
M.S. Bellows, Jr.@Popehat It's amazing to me how many commenters apparently took your final admonition as a dare. Sheesh.
jaymerryfield 
@Popehat so basically, there is at least a moderate chance that the trial will extent beyond the election and Trump will potentially be in a situation where he wins the election but is found guilty before inauguration?
Nobilis ReedWhat are the chances of the trial reaching a verdict before inauguration?
Peter Principle@Popehat Can't argue with that, bur if you thought Donny's last two presidential campaigns were utterly insane circus acts, wait til you see THIS one.
Aaron Anderson
𝐉𝐨𝐧 𝐁𝐞𝐫𝐠𝐞𝐫@Popehat It looks to me like Cannon was taking his other already-set trial dates into account. He has, if I'm counting correctly, three trial dates set in the first six months of 2024. November would have been nice, but it was never actually going to BE November even if she'd set it for then because that's realistically way too tight with this volume of evidence. Anything later than that and earlier than the date she set would have conflicted with another of the trials, and it was entirely reasonable of her not to do that. Judges take other legal proceedings involving the same parties into account all the time, because there would be a bit of a due-process problem if we were going to require someone to literally be in two places at once.
Also, the day the search warrant was executed is certainly the day on which we all started seriously fantasizing about Trump in an orange jumpsuit, but that's not the date that matters. The date that matters is when he was CHARGED, which was months later.
Weyoun 6@Popehat does the legal team file to delay once Trump wins the primary?
Eric Schultz
jz.tuskThe fact that we're in the middle of a coup via the judicial branch is probably coloring people's perceptions.
Louee@Popehat A bit fast? Bull.
climate voter/degrowthist@Popehat I don't doubt you but isn't there something very wrong with our so called legal system?
RodneyPetersonTalentAgency@Popehat In a country that took matters of executive betrayal of national security much more seriously he would have been executed months ago.
Pamela Ehn@RodneyPetersonTalent @Popehat hold up. I know it’s frustrating that the legal system is so slow, but it’s designed that way, or at least after the civil rights era it was. This slowness is a feature not a bug. You don’t want to live in a country where there is a precipitous rush to judgment, especially in a capital case, before all the evidence is gathered. Yes, this “protects” Trump, but it also protects defendants who don’t have Trump’s privilege. Before the judicial reforms brought about by the civil rights era, defendants in many states didn’t have the right to an attorney. And we had this quick rush to judgment which impacted the black community horribly. Black men would be executed for rapes within weeks of the alleged crime, and then they would be found many years later to have been innocent. We REALLY do not want to return to those days!
@cadenza @Popehat it doesn’t. Repeatedly innocent people are railroaded because of this garbage legal system. Just days ago, in California, a man who bombed a business, killing an ex-girlfriend, and found with the bomb making materials in his home, and having collected 350K in insurance, convicted of the crime, five years after the fact. Why is this piece of shit out on bail since then waiting to be sentenced? Garbage legal system for all but the very few.
@RodneyPetersonTalent @Popehat you missed my point. The gears of the legal system grind slowly for a REASON. This is not to say that people aren’t still being railroaded today, but it happens a lot less frequently thanks to judicial reform. As for that guy out on bail. Well, he’s been convicted, so it’s going to catch up with him eventually. That dude will end up serving his time when appeals are exhausted.
@RodneyPetersonTalent @Popehat it will catch up to him and it will be worse for him when it does. The legal system is not gentle with defendants who continue to crime while out on bail. If he commits further crimes, he will face more charges, which will only increase his sentence. If he is out on appeal, the fact that he is still criming is going to cause his appeals to be rejected.
@cadenza @Popehat Aaron Sorkin, The Newsroom:
..there is no
evidence to support we're the greatest country in the world We're 7th in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, 3rd in median household income, 4th in labor force, and 4th in exports We lead 3 categories number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense,
where we spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies
@RodneyPetersonTalent @Popehat true. But how is that relevant to the discussion?
@cadenza @Popehat Number of incarcerated citizens per capita it’s right there and even if Aaron Sorkin isn’t 100% correct in his research and script writing he’s close. This was a number of years ago. Considering the horrible trend towards fascism, no doubt most or all of that is worse. Especially infant mortality for which we can thank quite possibly the very worst, most corrupt and unethical Supreme Court ever.
@RodneyPetersonTalent @Popehat again, all true. But you veered off the topic at hand.
@RodneyPetersonTalent @Popehat ok, but it left me totally confused as to what point you were attempting to make and it derailed the thread. Instead of a point that added to the conversation, I got an infodump. Not that infodumps are bad, but in this context, it did not add to the topic at hand.
Virginicus@Popehat Which one?
@Popehat Based upon my experience trial date so far out sets the case up for a further adjournment which obviously puts a potential trial date closer to election day and, assuming the application to move the trial date is granted, would then strengthen an application by Trump to move the case to a post-election day trial date. Would have preferred that a February or March trial date have been set so that any adjournment at that point would have likely been to sometime in May.
Zoomer Antimillenarian@Popehat I assume this still isn't the "real" trial date given the extensive legit reasons you've discussed for further delay.
Bob Blaskiewicz 🇺🇦 🇨🇦 🇬🇱@Popehat It felt like she is not considering the election, which is appropriate.