Samuel (he/him)
myrmepropagandistAnd Then Satan Said:
We are going to separate into breakout groups of five people, after 8 min. each group will present what they discussed in the main group.
π¨π¦ Steve@futurebird oh, the gnashing of teeth as people try to figure out how to do this in Teams which is of course the only video call software that Satan approves.
SallyBlack@toastygirl @futurebird βonly one group did so weβll give you another 20β
Tom Bellin 
@tob @toastygirl @futurebird instead of snail mail?
I don't mean ground mail, either. π
Still mad there isn't a kind of mail that really involves snails.
@futurebird @tob @toastygirl That was awful.
Thank you.
Randall Lee
Murray Lang@futurebird It's spelt Kagan.
Andrew Feeney@futurebird Diabolical.
ΰ€¦ΰ₯ΰ€ΰ€ Π±Π»ΡΠ΄Ρ@futurebird Satan, the guy who did humankind a solid and rebelled against god? Nah, he would never come up with horrible shit like that.
Allan Chow@futurebird why are you doing this to me.
Sue Wainscott@futurebird βdonβt forget to complete the icebreaker activity before you dig into the group work!β
@futurebird
"We discussed as a group how much we hate this group discussion bs"
"We discussed as a group how much we hate this group discussion bs"
Jonah Duckles@futurebird genuinely curious: is it any better for you if the report out from the group is done in a document, and nobody is put on the spot to report out? I guess Iβm asking which part is the most annoying in the experience for you.
I think the annoying part is that the topics being discussed are either:
1. too complex to hash out in 8 min
2. too vague and poorly defined so all you get are pithy platitudes
I've been asked to develop an anti-racism policy like this, to discuss how to make a school community welcoming, just wild stuff for the format--
It's OK for helping people get to know each other, or for the most surface level kinds of consensus building.
I guess it's the feeling time is being wasted.
Peter Kisner β@futurebird @jduckles
This brings to mind a horror story/cautionary tale:
In the early 2000s, a friend told me of an incident where some (white and cleanly clueless) college residence life administrators were tasked with coming up with and implementing a diversity training program for staff.
1/x
@futurebird @jduckles
Not sure where they got the idea for this specific exercise, but what they came up with consisted of two parts:
1) Break out group members were required to share all the slurs they could think of regarding each other.
2) Then they would discuss their feelings about these words.
Already this sounds like a possibility recipe for things to go badly (as some staff warned the organizers). But they went ahead with it anyway and it gets worse:
2/x
@futurebird @jduckles
From a lot of second hand exposure, I get the impression there is (or at least used to be, before so many college closings) a lot of "rise to your level of incompetence" in college admin.
It's equally possible they came up with this idea on their own, or latched onto some badly designed training material, or misinterpreted and mis-applied some better training material. But refusal to listen to objections or concerns seemed pretty standard.
@futurebird @jduckles
This training was sandwiched between several other types of training for the day. And the day was behind schedule.
So after part 1 of this training, the organizers decided there was no time for part 2. People who had just been insulted or coerced into insulting others were left to sort things out for themselves.
Staff who participated ended up furious with each other (for using slurs) and with the administrators who organized the thing.
3/3
okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin
njwatt
apophis@PTR_K @futurebird @jduckles do you have the names and workplaces of the people who came up with this?
not plotting violence i just feel we need to warn those employers
not plotting violence i just feel we need to warn those employers
@apophis @jduckles @futurebird
No. I was only tenuously acquainted with the folks who brought the situation about. And mainly heard about it through a couple people who discouraged it but had no authority to stop it.
Also, it was probably around 20 years ago. I think most (maybe all) of the folks involved moved on to other institutions long since. Get the impression people switching employers happens a lot at certain levels of college administration.
Lore System@PTR_K oh my god
Ben Rosengart@PTR_K @futurebird @jduckles Thereβs something about assigning this sensitive task (designing the training) to untrained young people that suggests to me that the professionals involved had contempt for the whole premise, ya know?
@fivetonsflax @futurebird @jduckles
Not impossible. But given the temperaments of people I knew at that level during that decade, I get the impression the thought process was more like, "Okay, I guess this is a thing we have to pay attention to now. How hard can it be?"
Combined with a mindset, "I am at this level of administration, therefore all my ideas are automatically more correct than those below me."
Bethany Berger@fivetonsflax @PTR_K @futurebird @jduckles We had a pretty terrible training from an ostensibly trained personβit was about 15 years ago though & the ones Iβve attended more recently have been better
@futurebird Thanks for sharing. I've been learning a lot about the MΔori (indigenous Neew Zealanders) ways of doing and being, and they make clear time for the acts of relationship building, as a requirement, before you can do real work together. When those two are conjoined, meet the people, and GET TO WORK. Things usually don't go well, and most time is spent on meeting, not working. When I facilitate, I like to make more relational time than working time early. It pays dividends later on.
Aaron@jduckles @futurebird I'm just going to pop in here for a sec to interject:
I'm #autistic. Yes, it's better if nobody is on the spot. No, that is not enough to make it good or even okay. The forced socialization, abrupt transitions, and time pressure all make it a big nope. And no, it's not "annoying". It's *terrifying*.
So please, anybody reading this who might consider doing what even Satan himself would not do*: Please, remember the importance of accessibility when planning meetings. Not everyone is stamped from the same cookie cutter.
*see other comments for reference
avatastic 
@futurebird And he did rub his hands, for he knew by the time the last group came to speak, there would be nothing new to say.
Michael Kohlman@futurebird
Clearly a participant in at least one Leadership Training Program:
Clearly a participant in at least one Leadership Training Program:
llewelly@futurebird the group version of breakout never lived up to the promise of the one person arcade game
David RolfeWhat about βwarlordsβ for the 2600, thatβs 4 person breakout and is still fun!
@Dorolfe @futurebird I confess I've never played it, nor owned a 2600
@llewelly
If you see one at a stoop/garage sale with warlords and paddles (the βdialβ controllers) itβs a good time. :p
If you see one at a stoop/garage sale with warlords and paddles (the βdialβ controllers) itβs a good time. :p
Bornach
Warlords: Atari Archive Episode 56
@bornach @llewelly @futurebird
Yes, this is the one this is the jam.
The other 2600 was named after the 2600 Hz tone that a blue box makes to signal the phone system to connect the following dtmf tones as a long distance call. Phreaking. π€ππ
@bornach @llewelly @futurebird
Thanks for this cool history of the game!
Colopen@futurebird breakout groups are the worst. π
πΎββοΈπ
πΎββοΈπ
πΎββοΈ
ginguin (bean)@futurebird I am guilty of asking people to do this. Heck, I think itβs baked into the day tomorrow!
JenI was in a zoom thing yesterday with breakouts. We were invited to:
1. Private message host to request being left out
2. Give whatever feedback we wanted (no pressure, no nominating a spokesperson, no getting sidelined)
3. Offer half-formed thoughts
4. Sit in respectful, thoughtful silence
These made it a much better experience. You might be able to use some in your thing?
@JetlagJen @futurebird I'll be discussing these ideas with the other facilitators. These are customer service trainings, so interaction is literally what this is all about, but making the training more inclusive and accessible is good.
Most of our stuff doesn't have those interactions. Just the two courses that cover sales and customer service.
Matt Cooney
Play Ball and Fight Fascists@futurebird
And that is when I suddenly lose connectivity.
And that is when I suddenly lose connectivity.
Kschaffs@futurebird and nothing of importance happens. Ever.
Louis Cyphre@futurebird Noted...
James Guilford@futurebird @MissPixiePancake Damn! You and those replying are giving me βMeeting PTSDβ. π« Brings back horrifying memories of hours wasted in ostensibly worthwhile β¦ e x e r c I s e s !
@futurebird π Thank you for my first laugh of the day!
Scrambles@futurebird OMG those types of sessions are the WORST! 
Aunt Eef@futurebird I HATE breakout sessions with the burning passion of a thousand fiery suns π π π π‘ π€¬
will-r-s-hansen"Our sole finding is that breakout groups suck"