Framework Sold Out of 3 Batches of Laptop 16 in Less Than 3 Hours.
cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/762202 [https://programming.dev/post/762202] > cross-posted from: https://mander.xyz/post/1226322 [https://mander.xyz/post/1226322] > > > For now both DIY and prebuild edition (all configurations) are in batch 4 which ships in late Q4 2023.
Previous products took much longer for batches to sell out. Even the AMD framework 13 laptops didn’t sell this fast and they were the #1 thing the community had been asking for for about a year.
We (sadly) can’t tell how many units are in a batch. But we can tell that demand is far exceeding their expectations.
At this point idk if it’s exceeding their expectations, they just literally don’t have enough money to invest into more production yet.
Hopefully that problem will become more and more alleviated as they sell more and more devices.
Big-yet-thin, affordable Ryzen laptops with the option to add a real GPU to, that are just as upgradeable (component wise, if not market-availability wise) as a desktop?
Demand is high. Demand will remain high.
I can’t be the only one waiting to see more “real people” reviews of production units before plunking down money. I don’t upgrade laptops frequently and I don’t want to buy something buggy (i.e. Linux compatibility for wifi, ACPI, battery life, etc).
And while I’m waiting, I haven’t looked into a good answer to the USB-C dock story for the AMD versions. I see a lot of ambiguous statements about USB4 “being Thunderbolt” but not a lot of concrete statements on compatibility and capability.
Same. Although I wouldn’t hold your breath
LTT/LMG push VERY hard for this (I think Linus is an investor?). And stuff like the screwdriver reviews are a really good example. Almost no outlet said anything bad about it because… it is a good screwdriver. But it is well worth watching the Project Farm review where he very clearly emphasizes specific features and capabilities that put it in a weird hybrid “home”/“automotive” screwdriver category that felt pretty artificial. PF is awesome so his review is still incredibly useful if you just weight as to what you actually need, but a few other outlets did similar “we need to make sure this comes out #1 so that we don’t get lynched” shenanigans.
I thought it was insane that they take apart a fully built laptop to sell the diy version.
It’s way more work for Framework, but they charge less for the diy model.
I wonder if user comfort with modifying internals on the diy model creates more sales in the long run, because customers can visualize what they’d be doing when installing an upgrade.
I think the DIY model doesn’t include some components in the base price and that is why it is cheaper. Once you configure it to include other components it is a comparable price.
It seems the DIY option will only really save you money if you already have those components or if you buy those other components cheaply somewhere else.
Bit of both.
They are pretty open about the risks of large batches and large inventory.
And they have the full marketing campaign going. LTT/LMG managed to convince their fanbase to actively advocate against their own consumer rights and the other computer youtubers (like Steve and Jay and Rossman) are pretty positive on at least the business premise.
I want one so fucking badly, but I can’t really justify the cost.
But I could… Just… Get one anyway. Somebody help me.
Also, when will they be delivered? Not that quickly I suppose?
My only hesitation points when I first heard about the laptop was whether the company would survive long enough to make upgrades/accessories and whether the main board upgrades would actually work. The concept was, as you say, a dream.
Both of those concerns have faded away for me, my next laptop is pretty much 100% going to be a framework. Just need to stop spending money on dumb stuff so I can afford it…
waits excitedly for Framework to ship in my region
It’s fine, my current laptop has a couple of years life left in it. They’ll open up orders by then right? Right?
To find the answer , stay tune we’ll be right after this commercial break 📺.
( Later on, story was told that they never returned… )
Check it out! It’s a great, modular, and repairable laptop with comparable prices for the specs in regards to mainstream laptops.
You can even upgrade the motherboard, which means as long as the company doesnt go under you can just infinitely reuse and upgrade it kinda like a tower PC.
can confirm. Work thinkpad broke a year ago and switched to a framework (had the exact same price for the same specs, but was fully repeairable copared to thinkpads).
And just last week I received my personal 13gen intel framework.
Great hardware
I do badly want to like these… but I don’t see the point.
Repairability wise mid range ThinkPad is nearly as good. Only major difference is I think Framework claims they will release schematics… and as someone who actually does component level repairs I’ve seen promises like this work I’ve or twice, but then they stop maintaining their data or pays get hard to get rendering the gesture null.
Upgrade wise… I switch machines every 4 to 6 years… at which point the chassis has a bit of wear and tear.
Spec wise I buy what I need and add a little headroom with the ThinkPad.
Spare parts are good for ThinkPad and Lenovo actually has component replacement guides that no one seems to mention or know about.
And when I do upgrade I appreciate having a complete spare machine.
I think it’s also not unreasonable to assume my style of buying and upgrading is not uncommon.
This leaves the Framework very few hardware advantages and nil price advantages.
I still think they’re a great idea, but I don’t see any practical benefit over a sensible alternative.
Genuine question… Have I missed anything?
Well, framework has one fool side-effect of their repair-friendly approach: their laptop mainboard can be used as an SBC. I’ve seen a few projects use it in this way, and I believe they even sell an official plastic case for it. It’s a well-documented piece of computer hardware that is regularly updated and can be fitted easily into slim chassis.
Oh, and another cool thing is that their screens have magnetic bezels. ThinkPads are a PITA to fix if you just want to replace an LCD panel; framework makes it trivial to keep the upper chassis and only replace the part that’s actually broken. That’s the real pitch with Framework: replace anything easily and upgrade your computer for only the cost of the mainboard or socketable component. Some of their newer devices have a socketable PCIe expansion bay, which could be used for things like socketable GPU upgrades.
I just had a look at their motherboards, nearly AUD$1000 shipped for the cheapest available 12th gen board… board only.
Just bought a ThinkPad with 16gb dual channel and 1TB nvme for $60 less than this and it has an on-site warranty.
I love the idea but the pricing is insane.
Just pricing the minimum possible 16" machine came to AUD$2400 with no ram, no SSD, no OS, no numpad and no charger.
Add all this things, even self bought your looking at over $3k or even $4k if you want the GPU
I wish them luck… They’re going to need it.
I just got a pre-order for one of the Framework 16’s. The issue Framework has at the moment is scale. Lenovo has the size and customer base to produce an absolute insane number of laptops compared to Frameworks operation. So cost is going to be 30, 50 or even 100% more than the big boys like Asus, Lenovo or HP. They won’t ever get that scale unless people believe in it and buy one.
However, there’s one other thing which I justified my purchase with. I could buy a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Extreme with the i7-2700H, 32gb of ram and a RTX 3050ti for $AUD4,929. Or I could buy the Framework 16 with Ryzen 7840HS, 32GB ram, Radeon 7700s for $AUD3,916. Both of these processors and GPUs are similarly speced, in fact I believe the benchmarks had the Framework slightly ahead, but the framework comes out over $AUD1000 cheaper. Yes the Thinkpad X1 Extreme is their uber premium model, but just as you pay a premium for Lenovo’s business grade hardware, you pay a premium for Frameworks repairability.
Just popped that Lenovo into my small business cart and got $1000 under what you’ve mentioned (assumed you went with upgraded screen, the 60hz 300nits screen is a piece of crap and shouldn’t exist in a machine of that calibre), but even at that price the framework does seem more attractive.
No doubt if you take money out of the equation it’s a good option, but if you’re on a budget you could hunt down a similar specced Lenovo Legion or something for a bit less.
I believe the price difference came from you being part of the Lenovo business store, I didn’t use that the last time and just used the standard consumer store.
I just re-entered the specs on the consumer store for the X1 Extreme Gen 5 16" and got 5,214 Australian Dollars. Otherwise it might be if you aren’t in Australia, did you get the local dollar amount and convert to AUD or did you use the Australian store directly?
Anyway, doesn’t change the main point as you say that if you are bargain hunting, the Framework 16 isn’t the way to go but it’s still a good laptop from what we can see. I don’t mind spending more for the framework since I believe in what it stands for. Plus who knows what might come with upgrades down the line.
Available in three configurations of Intel 11th Gen Core i5 and i7 processors, offering fantastic performance, great power efficency, PCIe 4.0, and Intel’s new Xe Graphics, delivering a massive leap over previous generations. The Mainboard is easy to replace and upgrade, and comes with the Heatsink
I deliberately ignored 11th gen, is old enough that refurbished equivalents can be bought for the same price on eBay with a case, power supply, ram, storage, wifi and OS licence for the same money.
With the framework board you get none of that.
And as for it being an option for embedded use, there are far better options.
I know this all sounds negative… But I’m truly trying to like the idea. I can’t see it catching and reaching the mass needed to become more sustainable at this point.
It’s just going to remain a niche untill they die… Or maybe they can survive on the small numbers? (Which I think would be great by the way, I’m very proud choice, just not a fan of the price!)
My opinion:
Framework has a good track record and I would give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. (Concerning upgradeability)
laptops are getting more and more powerful and I like the idea of treating them similar to a desktop
as a ThinkPad user you probably know how popular especially old ThinkPads are, because of the ability to mod them
you might buy a new laptop every few years but the point above proves that there will be people interested in a second hand laptop, therefore reducing waste
there will always be a market for good quality and customer friendly products and the existence of framework is great for competition (for the end user)
they support the open source mentality, even tried to help to bring coreboot to their laptops. Even though that failed they’re keeping an eye on openSIL
overall I’m more of Linux instead of Windows, FOSS instead of corporate closed software, Lemmy instead of reddit and framework/system76/… instead of Lenovo/… kind of person. I see it partly as a fight for “freedom” if you so will.
THE IMPETUS Platform & Silicon Firmware Development has historically been a niche field in the compute industry, requiring specific, hard-to-find engineering skill sets. As time progressed, firmware capabilities expanded, offering a large range of enhanced capabilities and platform intelligen...
While I love my mech getting one included means a full redesign for the benefit of just a small subgroup.
That said, I did notice their keyboards run QMK firmware, was very impressed by that.
Black is must, I have to admit that shiny look is a put off for me.
Track point needs to happen too.
And my biggest compliant for my ThinkPad is the ctrl and FN keys being in shitty places.
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