Xe 
I tried using Email but the onboarding was very confusing. I have to choose a server? And I'm at the whims of server admins having petty disputes for if my posts are delivered to my friends?
Apparently there's this new thing that's supposed to save us but like their app is so hard to use and the window resizes so weirdly at random
Follow my SoundCloud: https://youtu.be/M1fioflxEH0
Blue Sphere (Beta Version) - Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
>>>>>>>@cadey and this is why everyone uses gmail
@cadey you have succesfully identified the parts of email that suck
Ferrichrome
Zumi | nki@cadey feels like email in 2023 is that you make a Google account and use it for life; while your school/work emails are given to you under the whim of more Google or Microsoft ;(
Cassandra is only carbon now@cadey Did you know your mail administrator can read everything you send and that people send to you? Isn't that wild?
Hugo Slabbert ⚠️@xgranade and direct messages aren't even end to end encrypted without jumping through a bunch of hoops? Pass...
apalu
Eris Renée
Not a Spring Onion
Yuki "neige d'aout" Hazuki 膤 ❄️ 
@cadey most people are on the two or three biggest servers, if you go on a smaller one there's no guarantee your posts will reach all your friends there
Jessica 
Astryr Cyberfæ 
@cadey and the server operators can read all my emails??? Theres no encryption???
🏳️🌈 HeroRareheart 🏳️⚧️@cadey yes but no. Think of it like if Twitter operated like email.
If that makes no sense, compleatly forget about it that anology will only confuse you further if it doesn't clear it up.
@cadey wait I'm stupid and this is not related, forget what I said.
hayalci@cadey the provider has a web interface, but it sucks on mobile. But for mobile, there are hundreds of client options, too 😔
Sylvhem@cadey Also, I heard the admins can read your messages!
hybrid havoc@cadey I heard Meta emails
Dave Anderson@cadey So I signed up for email but I don't seem to be getting the same email as everyone else, how can this possibly work
Chris. You know. That one.@cadey A lot of ISPs from back in the era when internet email was becoming standard were a) usually dedicated professionals with years, if not decades of experience. b) held to carrier and telecommunications laws in the US. I appreciate where you are going here - people are being panic-y because there's a lot of FUD right now.
Put our points together though - why are people trying to make people on the fediverse afraid of each other? It looks like an attempt at disruption from where I'm sitting.
Put our points together though - why are people trying to make people on the fediverse afraid of each other? It looks like an attempt at disruption from where I'm sitting.
Yulian Kuncheff@cadey I genuinely think that Apple started a trend of dumbing technology down so far, that the masses are becoming tech illiterate.
It's not just Apple, and it's partially that more of the world is online, but I feel like when I was a teenager, everyone had an email, everyone knew how to use it, people were happily chatting on forums, making geocities/angelfire/tripod sites, and so on. Willingly learning knew things.
Now I say Browser and people go "you mean Google?". And no one tries.
Drunemeton
Fish Id Wardrobe ⁂
craig@cadey - you possibly can't imagine how sad and funny your comment is for someone who used to do email before the internet arrived. If you are interested - try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet
Charlotte 
/Cinny 
@cadey imo activitypub works better than email as well
Ended up having to change my email address for my bank because it couldn't connect to my mail server (the only mail server that can't)
Ended up having to change my email address for my bank because it couldn't connect to my mail server (the only mail server that can't)
Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸@charlotte @cadey just different issues, with email everybody are on three huge servers that block messages from almost all the smaller ones because they want all the control, with fedi most people are on smaller servers that often block messages from a lot of the other smaller servers because they didn't take the same side in one of the 4892 blood feuds happened over the last five years
Thinkaholic is 🐸 antifa@cadey Ah, yes, the time-honored technique of mocking potential Mastodon users for not being geeky enough. The same approach that made Linux on the desktop so successful, now brought to anti-social media.
I will never understand this mindset of wanting Mastodon to absolutely fail to make a dent in the world and to see corporate platforms continue to dominate because… non-techs users are cringe? Because it’s so much fun to say “It works for me” and smirk? I guess I’m not cool enough to get it.
I will never understand this mindset of wanting Mastodon to absolutely fail to make a dent in the world and to see corporate platforms continue to dominate because… non-techs users are cringe? Because it’s so much fun to say “It works for me” and smirk? I guess I’m not cool enough to get it.
Cosmiss@pooserville @cadey
Yes, thank you. I've been trying to decide if I want to try and be more active here and if this is the place for me. But seeing all these posts lately make me feel like I shouldn't be here.
Yes, thank you. I've been trying to decide if I want to try and be more active here and if this is the place for me. But seeing all these posts lately make me feel like I shouldn't be here.
@Cosmiss Obviously, it's your choice, but for myself:
• I don't want to depend on a corporate service, especially ones that have a history of enabling racist behavior like Twitter and Bluesky
• I have been able to find a critical mass of smart, funny, and passionate people here on Mastodon to follow, and I am getting to participate in a number of interesting conversations.
• There is a learning curve, and it's steeper than it should be because of the attitudes you see, but it is surmountable.
• I don't want to depend on a corporate service, especially ones that have a history of enabling racist behavior like Twitter and Bluesky
• I have been able to find a critical mass of smart, funny, and passionate people here on Mastodon to follow, and I am getting to participate in a number of interesting conversations.
• There is a learning curve, and it's steeper than it should be because of the attitudes you see, but it is surmountable.
LisPi@pooserville @cadey Users unwilling to learn or help themselves are cringe.
Being a noob isn't inherently bad. Everyone starts there. Some choose to stay there against their own well-being and *that* is what's deplorable.
(Also the fact they generally already faced the exact same challenge with email, so they're not really failing to understand, they're intentionally refusing to do it.)
@lispi314 You know, email is a great example! Let's compare email to Mastodon:
There is one default consumer email provider, and it's Google. Microsoft is a distant second. So let's pick one instance, say Mastodon.social, and make it the default for new signups.
Which provider doesn't matter, because nobody except hobbyist neckbeards will ever defederate from Gmail or Microsoft or other large providers. So let's make it impossible to defederate from major instances.
Yeah, I think this can work…
There is one default consumer email provider, and it's Google. Microsoft is a distant second. So let's pick one instance, say Mastodon.social, and make it the default for new signups.
Which provider doesn't matter, because nobody except hobbyist neckbeards will ever defederate from Gmail or Microsoft or other large providers. So let's make it impossible to defederate from major instances.
Yeah, I think this can work…
@pooserville Good luck have fun with moderating that. We've already seen the megacorps can't (and won't) effectively do it.
We've also seen exactly how easy it is to completely takeover and ruin such an instance too.
And at the moment, Google exists because antitrust is being ignored (and Microsoft because it was already halfways dead by last time).
Unlike email however, very few people *need* maximum reach social media (or at all), so telling megacorps to get fucked is absolutely an option.
@pooserville For the record, I still think not making #ActivityPub primarily #P2P or at least message-oriented with gossiping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossip_protocol) similar to #Usenet / #NNTP was a mistake.
jonny
ch0ccyra1n is leaving fedi soon@lispi314 @pooserville one potential solution to this might be bridging an existing p2p social network to ActivityPub.
@ch0ccyra1n As intermediary step, yes I think that would have some potential.
@lispi314 OK, so the goalposts have moved from "noobs should figure out Mastodon like they figured out email" to "Mastodon should be nothing like email and harder to use in every respect because email sucks." Nobody could have seen that coming!
So, it's okay that Mastodon should only be for people who prove their tech worthiness because nobody needs social media. And megacorps should get fucked so that's why mastodon should push non-techy users to megacorp social media.
Do I have that right?
@pooserville Not really, the comparison to email was only ever a comparison.
Email never actually had this issue in a way that mattered until the idiotic tendency for assuming constant low-latency TCP-friendly connections fully set-in.
You can still send email over #floppies, #Fidonet, #UUCP and #NNCP just fine, by the way.
And you completely ignored my second post, which suggested several ways by which the design could've avoided reimplementing #SMTP but for social media.
@pooserville I'm quite aware of the issues with #ActivityPub's chosen design and annoyed because they were entirely avoidable.
@lispi314 I began composing my response to your first post before I saw your second post, which is why I ignored it.
Assuming for the sake of argument that ActivityPub is far from ideal technically, I still think the primary problem with Mastodon is social. We are driving potential users away into the arms of the megacorp instances by making new users' Mastodon experience crappy, and we should fix that to keep Mastodon relevant and valuable. The technical aspects are IMO much less important.
Assuming for the sake of argument that ActivityPub is far from ideal technically, I still think the primary problem with Mastodon is social. We are driving potential users away into the arms of the megacorp instances by making new users' Mastodon experience crappy, and we should fix that to keep Mastodon relevant and valuable. The technical aspects are IMO much less important.
Broken Troland@cadey Has anyone thought about how this is going to scale? If someone sends a message, it has to make a copy on both the sender’s server *and* the recipient’s server?? Including media which can be ten or more megabytes per message? I’m not made of hard drives!
flere-imsaho 🇺🇦@brandonlivesin @cadey (the annoying reply follows: the analogy would be technically more correct if an e-mail traversing the relays would have been stored indefinitely on each and every one of them, and there is much fewer systems in an e-mail relay chain than in a lifetime of mildly popular toot)
@brandonlivesin @cadey No worries, text compresses well and storage is getting larger and cheaper faster than demand for text storage is growing.
And well... there are always user quotas.
Z̈oé@cadey you mean gmail?
CaveDave@cadey yeah, it's this negative reaction to "Mastodon is just like email" which made me realise that most people don't know how email works. Sure, they use it but they don't understand the fundamental technology underneath it. To them it might as well be more formal Instant Messaging.
KewlCat@cadey and _they_ get to decide which email goes to the 'spam' folder!?
Frank Verhoeven@cadey ...and don’t even think of moving to another server. You will be disappeared forever for all your contacts.
Christoph (Applied Go)@Flies4no1 @cadey Except if you use a domain you own for email.
@Flies4no1 @cadey I do. Count = 1. But yes, I am nerdy enough to dig into DNS, DKIM, SPDIF, and DMARC to make all that domain stuff running with email. So count = 0.
@appliedgo @cadey Same here 🙋♂️
Astrid@cadey ah yes and sometimes your gtld is so used by spammers (we see you .xyz) that they add a default rule in antispams to decrease the score of all the mails that use this gtld. With as a consequence that they're flagged as spams most of the time and your only solution is to find a new domain
@johan This is why I use a .net instead of a .website for my main email address. It's such a huge pain.